D30 / D44 w/Warn lockouts

[mriplaybass]

Simple question. I am more familiar with other types of spindle nuts used to hold the hubs on, and I am putting the axles back together the way they came apart. On the Dana 30 front, once the bearings are in place, there is a spindle nut with a small pin on the nut face. Next is a tongue washer with holes that align with the pin. Finally there is another spindle nut without any pin. After that comes the Warn hub parts and subsequent snap rings . The Dana 44 rear has the same kind of Warn hubs (flat towing set up) except that the first spindle nut does not have the pin, the tongue washer does not have the holes, and the final spindle nut is the same as the first. Warn hubs are the same. My question is: What keeps the outer nut from backing off thereby allowing the eventual loosening of the inner nut? Is it just the "jam" nut effect of sandwiching the washer in between the 2 nuts? If so, does anyone know the torque on these nuts? They are the ones with 4 slots requiring a special socket. And why does the Dana 30 have a pin and washer setup and the Dana 44 have a smooth washer. Thanks for any help!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

You torque the outer nut to spec(IIRC, about 55 ft/lbs)and then bend the tap washer over the flats on BOTH nuts.
LG

 

[mriplaybass]

Thanks Lumpy! I think you misunderstood my description. I am referring to rather thick "tongue" washers, what you described sounds like a "tang" washer to me. Here is a picture of the Dana 30 parts. The Dana 44 is the same only that the washer has no holes and the inner nut has no pin.


It's hard to see, but the nut on the far right is the inner nut and there is a small pin at about the 7:00 position. The washer with the holes has a "tongue" at about the 1:00 position. When the "tongue" is in the spindle key way, and the pin is in the hole, and the outer nut is tightened against the washer, the inner nut can't turn due to the washer being locked into the key way. I just don't see what prevents the outer nut from backing off and letting everything loosen up! Especially on the Dana 44 since there is no pin on the nut and no hole in the washer to lock the washer and nut into the spindle key way. Again, I wonder is it just the jam effect that holds everything together? Hope I gave a better description.

 

[Hedgehog]

That does not look like your typical Dana 30 hub to me. It looks like a Ford Bronco or Ford hub set up. The Ford set up doesn't use a nut, it uses a slotted ring instead. I bet the pictured hub goes on the Dana 44 .

A Dana 30 has an inner nut as everybody with a jeep has a big ol' nut socket in their tool box knows (I've had mine for 30 years). ... then a washer with a tongue that goes in a slot in the spindle ... then an outer nut ... the tongue washer keeps the inner nut from turning ... once you have the torque the way to like then bend the washer to block a nut flat from turning on the out side nut.

 

[Old Dog]

All the Dana 44 's I've seen have the same nuts and washer as your 30 has, I would buy some new nuts and washers if I was you. Like you I don't see what would keep the nuts from backing off otherwise.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

That is NOT your standard set-up. Jeep D/30 used hex nuts with a thin washer that you would bend over the flats of the nuts.
Looks like several of the Ford front ends I have work'd on.
I think you may have a mix of parts-

Is this what you have? Because the hex nuts I speak of are with this kit.
Early Dana 44 Full Floater Axle Kit - Jp Magazine

LG

 

[Hedgehog]

After looking at what you have, even though it's not correct for a Dana 30 and are definitely Ford parts I bet it would work. You need an inner "nut" with the pin on it, a ring with a tongue to index in the spindle slot and an outer jam nut ..... I bet it would work, I hate to say it, maybe even better than stock. I always hate bending the washer. My Bronco set-up was far easier to deal with.

 

[mriplaybass]

That does not look like your typical Dana 30 hub to me. It looks like a Ford Bronco or Ford hub set up. The Ford set up doesn't use a nut, it uses a slotted ring instead. I bet the pictured hub goes on the Dana 44 .

A Dana 30 has an inner nut as everybody with a jeep has a big ol' nut socket in their tool box knows (I've had mine for 30 years). ... then a washer with a tongue that goes in a slot in the spindle ... then an outer nut ... the tongue washer keeps the inner nut from turning ... once you have the torque the way to like then bend the washer to block a nut flat from turning on the out side nut.

That's the way I am used to seeing it. Problem is that the nuts are way inside the hub, 1 1/2" to 2". The only direction I would be able to bend a tang washer would be backwards. That would do nothing to secure the outer nut, and bent over or not, the inner nut would soon follow.

 

[mriplaybass]

All the Dana 44 's I've seen have the same nuts and washer as your 30 has, I would buy some new nuts and washers if I was you. Like you I don't see what would keep the nuts from backing off otherwise.

Scary! I don't like the idea of being passed by one of my wheels going down the road!

 

[mriplaybass]

That is NOT your standard set-up. Jeep D/30 used hex nuts with a thin washer that you would bend over the flats of the nuts.
Looks like several of the Ford front ends I have work'd on.
I think you may have a mix of parts-

Is this what you have? Because the hex nuts I speak of are with this kit.
Early Dana 44 Full Floater Axle Kit - Jp Magazine

LG

This looks more like what is on our 67 CJ5 . The ones we have are exactly like the pictures with the exception of the 44 not having the nut with a pin and a washer with holes for the pin to engage. The washers are also way too thick to be able to bend the tab or any other part of the washer over.

 

[mriplaybass]

After looking at what you have, even though it's not correct for a Dana 30 and are definitely Ford parts I bet it would work. You need an inner "nut" with the pin on it, a ring with a tongue to index in the spindle slot and an outer jam nut ..... I bet it would work, I hate to say it, maybe even better than stock. I always hate bending the washer. My Bronco set-up was far easier to deal with.

That is exactly the way the 30 is set up. My worry is that there is nothing but the jamming of the outer nut against the washer and inner nut to keep things in place. If the outer nut loosens up, the guts of the lock out would keep the nut from coming completely off, but there would be about 1" of space between the outer bearing and its race. Lots of wheel wobble would be the result until the bearing would soon fail. And your right, I just installed after market lock outs on our 91 Ranger a few months ago, and if memory serves me correctly, this is what the new nuts and washers looked like. Hmmm............maybe I better check the Ranger before I loose a wheel!!

 

[Torxhead]

Looking at that pic you sent, mriplaybass, it looks like the nut w/pin and the slotted washer that come with the rear Warn full float conversion kit. In the Warn front axle conversion kit there are 2 nuts and two flat washers w/ locking arms, or whatever those things are called so they don't spin. The first nut on the front axle kit gets tightened to 36-60 in lbs and the second one to 125-AMC 150 ft lbs. I have sent a schematic of my rear full floater that shows how it goes on, if you can blow it up good enough.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

That's the way I am used to seeing it. Problem is that the nuts are way inside the hub, 1 1/2" to 2". The only direction I would be able to bend a tang washer would be backwards. That would do nothing to secure the outer nut, and bent over or not, the inner nut would soon follow.

You use a drift punch and bend a tap over the inner nut and then carefully pry a tab over the outer nut.
Been done this way for many decades.
LG

 

[Lumpy Grits]

That is exactly the way the 30 is set up. My worry is that there is nothing but the jamming of the outer nut against the washer and inner nut to keep things in place. If the outer nut loosens up, the guts of the lock out would keep the nut from coming completely off, but there would be about 1" of space between the outer bearing and its race. Lots of wheel wobble would be the result until the bearing would soon fail. And your right, I just installed after market lock outs on our 91 Ranger a few months ago, and if memory serves me correctly, this is what the new nuts and washers looked like. Hmmm............maybe I better check the Ranger before I loose a wheel!!

IIRC-There should be set-screws in the outer nut that lock into that washer and into the notches of the inner nut.
If you did NOT use the set-screws in the outer nut on the Ranger-Stop driving it till it's corrected.
DECLAIMER-I haven't work'd on a Ranger/Bronco II in over 20+ years.
LG

 

[mriplaybass]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies! I just found a PDF of the Warn installation instructions. Old Dog is right, I need to get the kit with the holes in the washer. Apparently, the jamming of the outer nut against the washer and inner nut is all that is required. The outer nut is knuckle busting tight. Here are the instructions directly from Warn:

[FONT=&quot]Install Manual Hub Spindle Nut Conversion Kit: (figure 4) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Install the inner bearing nut and torque the nut to 35 ft-[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]lb (Dana 28 and 35) or 50 ft-lb (all others) while rotating [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the front disc brake hub back and forth to seat the bearing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NOTE: The inner nut has a pin or post protruding [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]on one side. The pin is used to index into the lockwasher. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Back the inner bearing nut off 90 degrees. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Install the lockwasher so the key is positioned in the groove of the front spindle. Tighten the inner bearing nut, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]aligning the pin into the nearest lockwasher hole. Note: The lockwasher hole pattern is offset with the keyway [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to provide half-position setting by flipping [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the washer over to obtain closest hole. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Install the outer bearing nut and tighten to 85 to 135 ft-lb[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Dana 28 and 35) or 160 to 205 ft-lb (all others) using [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the spanner locknut wrench.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]205 ft-lb!! I guess that should hold things in place! Maybe a little lock tight on the outer nut? Couldn't hurt. Any additional info would be appreciated, but for now..........1959 "One piece at a time" moves on!
[FONT=&quot]T[FONT=&quot]hanks again everyone![/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Lumpy Grits]

NO locktite needed.
When you back that inner nut off-Using only the socket in your greasy hands. Tighten the inner nut to where the nut just feels alittle snug-NO MORE.
Then install the outer nut to specs.
WOW205 ft/lbs is a bunch--
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

but you don't have a Dana 28 or 35.....

 

[mriplaybass]

I only copied the installation instructions at the bottom of the page. The rest of the instructions refer to the Dana 30 , 44, 50, and 60 as "all others"

 

[73CJ]

Looks just like my Warn hug conversion kit

The tab plate locks the inner nut and the outer nut jambs it. Since there is not rotational load due to the lock plate. It will not creep loose. Common parts at Napa

 

[Torxhead]

Doing some online research, I see that there were two different styles with the inner spindle nuts on the now very expensive Warn front axle conversion kit. Using The style that mriplaybass posted or just using flat lock washers and nuts without all the holes, pins, and slots. I am not sure that those type of nuts and washers pictured are even still available as I sure would like to get some. I have a worn out set in my rear lockouts but not the front as they are just the flat style.