Moser 1 piece axle problems

[ColeTrickle]

I've searched, listened and thought it was my drums rattling. I was WRONG!
The sound is similar to a rock in a hub cap.

Unfortunately,
I've come to the conclusion that the noise is coming from the axle being able to move ever so slightly in the housing...only while a 33" tire is connected.

The movement is only around 1/8-3/16" of an inch on the tip of the tire. Not in and out, just a up and down movement at 12, 3, 6, & 9 o'clock positions.

There is hardly if any physical movement after install of the axle and completing the install of the drum (I've got to this point several times and cannot get movement).

The first call I had with Moser, I was told to basically do the install over again. Check the .02-.08" space in the bearing. Well, since I didn't want to take the pressed off bearing off. I went to O'Reilly's and got a Federal Mogul bearing and mocked it up checking the tolerances. Everything was in spec with this bearing in the housing. Granted it wasn't a Timken but the tolerances of the 2 cannot be that far apart to cause this noise.

Second call to Moser, I was told that my housing ends could be ovalized causing the bearing spacer ring not to seat properly. I asked, "so both sides are bad?"
Then I was told well your bearing is sandwiched with the backing plate so maybe your race is to far in and you may need to space your bearing spacer ring. WTF!?!

I apologize for the long wind. I figured I would have had this figured out by now. I got a 2000 mile round trip journey in this thing in a month and am starting to sweat.

Last question...could the bearing act as a fulcrum and my carrier has the "Play"?

Thank you for any and all opinions!!!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Carrier is under preload IF it's installed correctly.
You have way to much side to side play-There should be no more than .010 or so. Takes an dial indicator to ck it.
I have install'd several Moser axle sets and never an issue.
Damaged housing is a real possibility. Without pictures that detail your install or 'hands-on' of the axle , it's all SWAG at this point.
Does sound as it the bearing area is damaged in the axle housing--I would NOT DRIVE IT till fix'd
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

All else fails shim out he bearing race. Probably won't take much. Also keep in mind, when everything is hot tolerances tighten up.

In years past I've seen quite a bit of axle slop. I test drove a 1986 Marquis, drove great. Gave the rear wheel a sideways push and ..clunk, clunk, clunk... Some said that it is supposed to do that.

 

[ColeTrickle]

Here's some viewing pleasure for you gents. I appreciate yall viewing and giving me any and all insight.
Moser 1 pc axle install results:

https://youtu.be/r8nfPCPZw6o

Hope this works.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

WAY to much play!
Your gonna need to tear it down and see how loose the fit of the axle bearing is inside the housing. It should be a snug fit with no slop.
Again I'll say this-Don't drive it till fix'd--
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Shimming out the bearing race shouldn't be very difficult at all and I believe that is where your problem lies. Remember, with tapered bearings a little goes a long ways.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I'm still not 100% clear if the is side to side play(driver's side to passenger side)or up and down movement of the axle.
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

I'm still not 100% clear if the is side to side play(driver's side to passenger side)or up and down movement of the axle.
LG

It's all that. Just not "in" and "out" within the housing. I'll check again but I don't think I can pull it like that.

 

[Fastatv]

It's all that. Just not "in" and "out" within the housing. I'll check again but I don't think I can pull it like that.

I'm going to follow you on this...to learn. My axle/brake or something is making a noise as well. I installed the Moser one piece axles a few months ago and I installed exactly per instructions. Anyway, hope you figure it out, and its not a great deal of trouble.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I'm going to follow you on this...to learn. My axle/brake or something is making a noise as well. I installed the Moser one piece axles a few months ago and I installed exactly per instructions. Anyway, hope you figure it out, and its not a great deal of trouble.

Stop drive'n the jeep till you have it fix'd.
LG

 

[hagar]

Was the factory axle and bearing doing the same thing?
Did it have the same amount of movement as these one piece axles?
If yes, then you can assume the housing is the problem.
If no, then it's just another chitty one piece axle conversion that folks always seem to have bearing problems with.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Was the factory axle and bearing doing the same thing?
Did it have the same amount of movement as these one piece axles?
If yes, then you can assume the housing is the problem.
If no, then it's just another poopiety one piece axle conversion that folks always seem to have bearing problems with.

Moser was the first with the 1 piece axles for the '20' rear. The set-9 bearing used as the main axle bearing in this install, is very good for this purpose.
I have installed about a dozen sets over the last 8-10 years. Never an issue known to date.
99% of the time, it's the 'wrench-monkey' that screws up the install. Not counting damaged/bent housings-

LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

Thank you for your expertise, LG.

I'm very frustrated with this. I'm thinking the drv side bearing is suspect. The pass side has the same amount of play but doesn't make as much noise as the drv side.

As much as I hate to do it. I'm planning on buying another Timken bearing and race and scraping the one on it. Checking the tolerances on the new one rather than a similar federal mogul brand (national).

Which brings me to another question as to why the federal brand had the same design but connects the race and bearing as one piece. Seems this would alleviate the travel or "play" in the housing.
Then again, if there was this "play" the race could constantly be stressed enough to "walk".

Ugh.

 

[tarry99]

Thank you for your expertise, LG.

I'm very frustrated with this. I'm thinking the drv side bearing is suspect. The pass side has the same amount of play but doesn't make as much noise as the drv side.

As much as I hate to do it. I'm planning on buying another Timken bearing and race and scraping the one on it. Checking the tolerances on the new one rather than a similar federal mogul brand (national).

Which brings me to another question as to why the federal brand had the same design but connects the race and bearing as one piece. Seems this would alleviate the travel or "play" in the housing.
Then again, if there was this "play" the race could constantly be stressed enough to "walk".

Ugh.

Not a very high likelihood that the bearings unless used up are worn or out of round.......If there new .....chances are they are within a few tenths and would not move as much as shown.......I would be looking at the housing bore on both sides and also the finish inside the bore where the bearing OD rides.......if its all scored up and grooved that could very will be out of round.........along those same lines I would look at the bearing bore ID where the axle goes through....If for some reason the axle shaft is out of round or cut undersized that's another issue.............point is you need to take the axles out and clamp them in the vise and see if there is any noticeable play there between the axle shaft and bearing.......basically eliminate other things around it that could have clearance........if there is no clearance or looseness there then you need to measure the axle bore in the housing as mentioned above and compare the OD of the bearing and ID of the bore.....that dimension between the two is not much more that a few thousands of an inch...........that bore also needs to be square along the sides so several measurements have to be taken.........do you have access to some measuring equipment like in the picture, Bore gauge, snap bore gauges and a Mic?..........ask your friends. That should not be that hard to figure out where the problem is!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Thank you for your expertise, LG.

I'm very frustrated with this. I'm thinking the drv side bearing is suspect. The pass side has the same amount of play but doesn't make as much noise as the drv side.

As much as I hate to do it. I'm planning on buying another Timken bearing and race and scraping the one on it. Checking the tolerances on the new one rather than a similar federal mogul brand (national).

Which brings me to another question as to why the federal brand had the same design but connects the race and bearing as one piece. Seems this would alleviate the travel or "play" in the housing.
Then again, if there was this "play" the race could constantly be stressed enough to "walk".

Ugh.

Buy the bearings and collar from Moser!
They use a set-9 bearing and a collar of their own design.
Post pictures of how the bearing fits in the housing, BEFORE you install it on the axle.
Also want to see pictures of what the bearing area in the housing looks like. Along with the bearing on the axle.
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

Not a very high likelihood that the bearings unless used up are worn or out of round.......If there new .....chances are they are within a few tenths and would not move as much as shown.......

Yes they came with the Moser axles, only a few hundred miles on them.

I would be looking at the housing bore on both sides and also the finish inside the bore where the bearing OD rides.......if its all scored up and grooved that could very will be out of round.........

There is some grooves but they more or less look like machine bore grooves. Perfect circle around the bore. Not more than .001" wide or deep.

Thanks for the help! I will reply with my results.

along those same lines I would look at the bearing bore ID where the axle goes through....If for some reason the axle shaft is out of round or cut undersized that's another issue.............

Talking with Moser tech reps this was an impossible issue. The axles are machine milled and that could NOT be a possibility.

if there is no clearance or looseness there then you need to measure the axle bore in the housing as mentioned above and compare the OD of the bearing and ID of the bore.....that dimension between the two is not much more that a few thousands of an inch...........that bore also needs to be square along the sides so several measurements have to be taken.........

I will do this as soon as I find the tools.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

"I will do this as soon as I find the tools." Really don't need 'tools' for this--
Remove the axle and using the new Moser bearing. Slip it in the axle housing and see how sloppy/loose it feels.
POST UP PICTURES of this bearing as it sits in the housing.
Same without the bearing in place.
You did pack those bearings with grease before install, and installed the inner axle seal also-'RITE' ??
LG

 

[tarry99]

Not a very high likelihood that the bearings unless used up are worn or out of round.......If there new .....chances are they are within a few tenths and would not move as much as shown.......

Yes they came with the Moser axles, only a few hundred miles on them.

I would be looking at the housing bore on both sides and also the finish inside the bore where the bearing OD rides.......if its all scored up and grooved that could very will be out of round.........

There is some grooves but they more or less look like machine bore grooves. Perfect circle around the bore. Not more than .001" wide or deep.

Thanks for the help! I will reply with my results.

along those same lines I would look at the bearing bore ID where the axle goes through....If for some reason the axle shaft is out of round or cut undersized that's another issue.............

Talking with Moser tech reps this was an impossible issue. The axles are machine milled and that could NOT be a possibility.

if there is no clearance or looseness there then you need to measure the axle bore in the housing as mentioned above and compare the OD of the bearing and ID of the bore.....that dimension between the two is not much more that a few thousands of an inch...........that bore also needs to be square along the sides so several measurements have to be taken.........

I will do this as soon as I find the tools.

Sounds like your on the right track:
Do check the new bearings that are 200 miles old , while on the axle but out of the housing This is all about playing detective and not leaving anything for chance!
Housing bores can be deceiving to the naked eye.........that's why we measure things. And that is not to say that a quick check fit as LG mentioned should not be done .........but if loose or questionable that will only reinforce the need to measure.
And although Moser makes some very nice products , don't ever discount the fact that even though machined on a CNC turning center that there could not be a mistake........doubtful , but I've seen plenty of parts that came out defective for one reason or another............I check everything!

Make sure those bearing were seeing some Lube.

Based on that video , there seems to be plenty of movement. It should show up somewhere.

 

[ColeTrickle]

Ok, thanks Gents!

I'll post up results as soon as I can get them.

 

[ColeTrickle]

You did pack those bearings with grease before install, and installed the inner axle seal also-'RITE' ??
LG

Yes sir, on both. Wish I could come to a conclusion sooner than later.