steering knuckle lube ???

[Tranny Frank]

the original Jeep knuckle lube, Its been very elusive for many years thankfully Toyota replicated this design and its found in more modern vehicles although in this day in age since no one has properly identified this form of lube it still remains a secret but in a sense that,s what it is a "Trade Secret."

I began looking into this after repairing a 1988 Toyota Land Crusier.

Heres a link to the only Toyota forum that hasnt banned me , understandable though #1 They dont want to think they have been tricked by something as silly as grease and # 2 Its just adding insult to injury when you tell them its old school Jeep technology here ya go
\Toyota Trade Secret - Toyota - 4Runner . org Forum

 

[TDHofstetter]

Doesn't apply to any of MY Jeeps, but it's still a heckuva good read... and surely it'll be helpful to some of us. Thanks!

 

[Tranny Frank]

steering knuckle lubricant - Page 4


Here,s another thread, I Think what got me banned at this website is what Steve Turchet points out in his article MV knuckle service, although he indicates to use 80-90w he does point out the dis-advantages of using#2 grease, I have sent him the info that I have gathered.

Military Trader - MV BALL-KNUCKLE SERVICE

 

[BajaEdition]

Any info on closed knuckle grease is a good bit of info, thanks

 

[mhubacek]

Cut and Pasted from EARLYCJ5.COM

What lube should I use on my Dana 25 axle?
Answer: Manual suggests 90wt gear oil, I believe the consensus of the list on this awhile back was to use Mobil One lube grease. You won’t have to worry about spots on your garage floor and water will no longer be an issue. You can spackle most of it in when you have the knuckle apart, the fill the rest of the way when assembled. Make sure you remove any burrs on the knuckle cup…they will tear the new felt gasket and cause fluid/grease leakage. I use high temperature wheel bearing grease in my Dana 25 front knuckles. The property you are looking for in the lubricant is a stringy texture that sticks to metal even under high temperatures. I don’t know of many people still using 80-90w gear oil in their front knuckles due mainly to leaks. I still run 140W gear oil in mine. It lasts a year or so before enough of it leaks out to matter, but I have fairly new seals. I think a lot of it depends on whether you have freewheeling hubs. With freewheeling hubs you can put in whatever’s convenient since the knuckles don’t turn that much. I don’t have freewheeling hubs, so I use gear oil because I have heard that you can get cavitation with grease. They say it all spins to the outside from centrifugal force and the CV fails from lack of lubrication. There is clearly a good deal of disagreement on this among Jeep owners and mechanics. For a while I subscribed to the mil-veh list where the consensus seemed to favor 140W gear oil. But there certainly are many who use grease. I was thinking that chassis grease or wheel bearing grease just wouldn’t splash around in there as the designers wished. Thick stuff just would get slung to the outside and kingpin bearings, etc. would suffer. Something oily is necessary like SAE 90 or 140. Possibly track roller grease like is used in Caterpillar rollers might be thin enough. My GPW just has chassis grease in it and I am afraid of what I might find when I pull it apart. These things were designed in the days when nobody cared if they dripped a little. When they quit dripping it was time to fill them up again. I generally stick with the original manufactures recommendations, or something close if it is available. When I rebuilt the front end of my wagon I used a 600W oil. It was used in Model A rear ends. It does flow and will drip but it won’t get thrown out of the way. No problems in the winter either. Seemed to be the best of both worlds. I use Molybond and have done so for many years. It’s terrible stuff to handle because it sticks to anything and has such a high graphite content, but it won’t leak out, won’t get affected with water, won’t “spin off” and stays consistent during heat. I use Molybond in my steering boxes, steering knuckles, tie rods, bell cranks, drag links, and on all springs grease points. It’s also great on things like the pivot points for the clutch mechanisms and brake pedal grease points. It *cannot* be used anywhere near brake linings. When you wish to use it in your steering knuckles or steering boxes, I recommend that you just pump it in until it’s full. Then during normal driving (and when you put the Jeep away) just hop under the axle or the hood and wipe away the excess with a rag soaked in kero. Eventually, it will stop pushing out the extra grease and you won’t have to do it anymore.

 

[Tranny Frank]

It is a misconception that the manual indicates to use 80-90w oil.

B SECTION

I have read all manufactures information about this lube issue, none of them indicate to use a 80-90w oil, If there is info that supports this I would like to see it,

Ford indicates to use 1/2 pint of the proper lube

Dodge indicates to use what is termed "short fiber grease or wheel bearing lube" and in the same book also indicate to use a #2 multi purpose grease, certainly confusing to say the least, clearly to different lubes when investigated,

International states to use 38oz of a viscous chassis lube , to name a few,

the closest to 80-90w is what Dana documents indicate to use a 140w oil. This would be the best from a lube and longevity standpoint but aside from ideal conditions leaks out at a rate that is trouble-some.

This old school Jeep lube some how remained a mystery, If a guys where read the proper info and find out about this #0 or#1 form of lube used and recommended by Jeep they could'nt find a line on it. Unavailable they where told but some how vehicles are still being made and this form of lube is still being used by manufactures, Land and or range rover to name one, The product available thru the dealer ships the "One Shot Grease" from all that I have learned is the same type of lube recommended by Jeep a #0 sodium based semi-fluid lube.

The advantage of this from of lube is its ability to last indefinitly The write up on this Rover lube ( they wont tell you exactly what it is) is that its is "lubed for life" and of course Toyota straight axle rigs use this same lube for initial Fill.

So If you can tell me what books to look in that indicate 80-90w is what is manufactures indicate I would be interested as of what I have read that is nothing more than a misconception. Thanks Frank

 

[mhubacek]

Tranny Frank- Not sure where EARLYCJ5 got they're info, if I come accross something in a manual, I'll let you know. I would think it would be in the Original Service Manual for that year, wouldn't it? Lubrication Specifications?

 

[Tranny Frank]

These Novak guys have got a line on this

Jeep Closed Steering Knuckle Axle Repair

 

[mhubacek]

Good find, man that is some expensive lube! $68 for 64 OZ!

 

[Tranny Frank]

In comparison to the product Rover sells roughly 20$ per 10 oz its not that bad

And if it does a good job and keeps the components in the knuckle assembly happier for a longer , it makes good sense, 68$ does not go to far in purchasing bearings and u-joints and seals not to mention the labor,

 

[BajaEdition]

68$ does not go to far in purchasing bearings and u-joints and seals not to mention the labor,

ok now I am confused, I thought we were talking a lube for closed knuckles. Now it appears someone is talking about U Joints. I never was aware U joints were in closed knuckles in Jeeps, Just bendix joints and rzeppa joints, I may be wrong however, they may lump these into the u joint class. I have seen several recipes for joint juice and mix it myself for the CJ6 when needed, which is not all that often.
68 dollars does not sound too expensive for such .
We should clarify this however as a lot of guys do not even know what a closed knuckle system is or looks like.

 

[Tranny Frank]

The Jeep closed knuckle came with three options, a conventional Spicer u-joint or Bendix joint or a Rzeppa design, perhaps wheel joint is a better more all inclusive term,

The Rzeppa design was sold to the Japanese in the early 1950,s by Hardly Spicer and is now known as the "Birfield Joint" in those circles.

 

[BajaEdition]

Oh I know Birfields, had an 83 hilux that I put 316 thousand miles on, great 4x4, But have never seen a conventional u joint in a closed knuckle. Oh well we learn something every day.

 

[e rock]

These Novak guys have got a line on this

Jeep Closed Steering Knuckle Axle Repair

Hey Frank - In the interest of full disclosure, maybe you should mention that you are the one selling this stuff.

Just sayin'.

 

[Tranny Frank]

Yes, in the full interest of disclosure, I have tracked some of this down, the only way to get it is in a 120 lbs keg, It would take me years to use all of that,

And I figered that If Jeep used it and Toyota, and the average life expectancy is 30 years or so it had to be some preety good stuff,

I have been presenting this info to the Toyota Folks, I am banned everywhere I go, IH8Mudd, Yota Tech, and lots of others for presenting the correct informantion, very wierd

Heres a link, The Mushroom Factory - Toyota - 4Runner . org Forum

Keep in mind only slight variations between the JEEP axle and the Toyota, some parts a interchangable. For instance the wiper seal assembly, and the upper and lower trunnion bearings,

Any time a question comes up on this subject on the popular Toyota sites, folks get misinformation on the subject,
SO if Toyota builds a University in 1999 and pumps in mis leading info to these sites (IH8mush) on the subject , banned me for trying to shed some light on this situation,

Kinda crazy I think and all over some old school Jeep info,

Heres a link with the old school Jeep goop in a Toyota axle
Toyota core axle - Utah's Rock Crawling and Off-Road Forum

For more info read this link, this is the first time I went to this little hub of the Mushroom Factory
Toyota steering knuckle leak - Page 4 - Utah's Rock Crawling and Off-Road Forum

 

[BajaEdition]

good info
Like I said earlier, any info on closed knuckle jeeps is much needed and this goes way beyond that

 

[Tranny Frank]

Thank you,

I have run into a crazy situation here, even in old school Jeep circles this info has been forgotten about,

 

[Jokenring]

This guy is a troll. He has hit almost every board I belong to.

 

[Tranny Frank]

This guy is a troll. He has hit almost every board I belong to.

If you wish to call some one who is attempting to present the proper information in the WWW of confusion than guilty as charged,

This might as well be the World Wide Web of lies and deception in some circles (Ih8mush) gotta call it as I see it

If that is being a Troll well I am a Troll, and a real ugly one at that,

 

[Jokenring]

If you wish to call some one who is attempting to present the proper information in the WWW of confusion than guilty as charged,

This might as well be the World Wide Web of lies and deception in some circles (Ih8mush) gotta call it as I see it

If that is being a Troll well I am a Troll, and a real ugly one at that,

No, you are a troll because you are trying to peddle your grease at every offroad related forum claiming that it is magic and the whole world is under the deceit of the OEM because they reccomend something different. You cite things that have been posted randomly throughout the web claiming your grease is magic. You have no quantifiable proof to back up these claims other than Novak sells it. You don't listen to people when they tell you that the grease isn't the weak spot in the birfield, it's the birfield.

I will say you have handled yourself much better on this site than others you have been on, at least you are learning.