Build Thread 1973 Frame Swap and...

[dunebuggy18]

You guys all know how it works. Just a few repairs... It won't cost that much!

Ok, so I bought this rig knowing it needed work, and I have not been disappointed! I knew it needed ball joints, tie rods and tires. I have since found a lot of wiring issues, and then I found the cracks in the frame...

Passenger side front cracked horizontally along the bottom of the frame rail, driver side had a crack welded and a patch plate. When I removed the patch plate, the weld had no penetration. Of course NOW I know this type of crack failure is common for early CJ frames! The fact that the spring and shackle bushings were worn out and mismatched probably didn't help the frame any...

So I was lucky, I found a pretty clean '74 frame the does not have cracks, and did not have 500 lbs of welds already on it! Considering the last frame off restore I did was 35 years ago on a '49 Chevy, this should be interesting... :drool:

More pics to come, but I have already had some reinforcment plates added to the new frame, and I am cleaning it up and replacing a couple of bent spring hangers before doing some rust inhibitor, prime and paint. Just bought a Skyjacker lift; considering the amount of abuse the springs and shackles have already taken I want to start fresh!

It's only time and money... Any guesses which runs out first???

 

[dunebuggy18]

And here is the "new" frame... It had an added plate at the rear cross member, probably used for a spare tire bracket in the bed??? It's already gone. Frames been power washed and some reinforcement plates added to the front half of the frame.

More pics when the frame is painted...

 

[dunebuggy18]

Well, Life got in the way for a while: Moved the Kids to a new house, too many projects at work (3 months straight of 6 & 7 days a week last year), helped one son build his Jeep, helped the other son finish converting his 2007 4x2 Jeep (yes there IS such a thing!) to a 4x4 - THAT was a fun project!

Now it's time to get back to my project! Finally got the frame prepped, primed and painted, and got the front axle pulled so I can begin inspection and prep. Too much Red under the Jeep from the PO for my taste, but that's easy to fix...

Next, see what kind of shape the axle is in internally, then ball joints, axle u-joints, and wheel bearings before prep and paint. Brakes can wait a bit - don't want to leave new brake cylinders open, so I'll save that to the end. If the $$$ holds out, maybe a disc brake conversion???

 

[caveman]

Glad to see that you're getting back to it. To many people get tearing things apart and decide that it's too much for them. I've done 4 myself and know how much work it is. Good luck.

 

[mtnwhlr]

Sounds like the kids owe dad and should be out there helping

 

[dunebuggy18]

Sounds like the kids owe dad and should be out there helping

I have a HUGE bank of "IOU"s from the kids.... and do intend to collect!

 

[dunebuggy18]

Managed to get the years of dirt, grime, oil and grease, covering the 4 layers of paint cleaned off the pumpkin and axle tubes for the front axle - Axle tubes and pumpkin are prepped, primed and painted, and I'll paint the C's on the axles while I have it apart to change the axle u-joints and ball joints.
The diff looks pretty good, and I was happy to confirm by both the numbers and marking the gear and counting the yoke revolutions, that it is a 4:11 gear set. Pretty happy about that! Hoping to get a set of TeraLow Gears into the Transfer Case to go with that...

The pics show the latest, and I am hoping to pull the rear diff and check it out this weekend.

 

[Petescj]

The diff looks pretty good, and I was happy to confirm by both the numbers and marking the gear and counting the yoke revolutions, that it is a 4:11 gear set. Pretty happy about that!

I know this exact feeling. I opened mine up and was excited to see the 41 11 myself. Unfortunately I did the same thing as you and forgot the last step of identifying your ratio. You then take the 2 numbers and divide them. 41 / 11 = 3.73. Not trying to burst your bubble and 3.73s arent that bad. Im running 35s with them and there ok.

 

[dunebuggy18]

I know this exact feeling. I opened mine up and was excited to see the 41 11 myself. Unfortunately I did the same thing as you and forgot the last step of identifying your ratio. You then take the 2 numbers and divide them. 41 / 11 = 3.73. Not trying to burst your bubble and 3.73s arent that bad. Im running 35s with them and there ok.

Well, ! Got all excited there looking at the crawl ratio calculator, but 3.73's will work, especially if I pony up for the TeraLow gear set.

And the moral of the story is: Never try to count yoke revolutions AFTER the beer run...

Thanks Pete!

 

[Petescj]

Well, ! Got all excited there looking at the crawl ratio calculator, but 3.73's will work, especially if I pony up for the TeraLow gear set.

And the moral of the story is: Never try to count yoke revolutions AFTER the beer run...

Thanks Pete!

Thats exactly what Im looking to do. And I know all about the moral of the story as well. . I was looking at the TeraLow myself till Old Dog turned me on to these:

JB Conversions, Inc.

I havent grabbed them yet (and spent my Jeep money on a dog) but thats the way Im going.

 

[dunebuggy18]

Yeah, I was checking out the pictures of your future sled dog. She's going to be a blast on a camping trip! Our two mutts are considerable smaller, but they live for trail time.

It doesn't look like LoMax has a Dana 20 gearset. If I went that route, how different is the 300? If I have to modify driveshaft(s), use an adapter, etc, probably not worth the upgrade.

Have you (or anyone else) had any dealings with Herm the Overdrive guy?
Tera-Low Products | Herm The Overdrive Guy
He's advertising a rebuilt Dana 20 with 3.15 TeraLow gear set for $1350. Lot of $$ added to the project, but that's a pretty reasonable price for a rebuilt unit and an upgraded gear set. Besides, the price of a rebuild kit, synchro set, and TeraLow gear set, and I am almost there anyway - and that way I can't screw it up!

As it is, I going to have to rebuild the Transmission (bad 2nd gear synchro) - so not having to rebuild both units myself is a plus. Haven't taken apart a manual Transmission in a lot of years, so this will be an adventure!

 

[dunebuggy18]

Didn't get as much done as I would have liked yesterday, but then again, it's a CJ! Tore into the drivers side front axle: Brake hub & brake parts came off easily enough. Brake shoes down to about 20%ish, leaking wheel cylinder, no real surprise so far... Opened the hub lock assembly and added a service kit to the list of parts to order - clearly they have been underwater before... Water and grease make a wonderful muck! In spite of that, the hub lock parts look to be in good shape. So, a Warn service kit and a little grease, and it should be good to go (on that side at least). Then I tried to remove the spindle... Spent 3 hours getting it to come off! After much penetrant, some serious aggression therapy with a rubber mallet, a little warming with the torch, and two broken putty knives (as well as a few expletives that I may have to apologize to the neighbors for ) the spindle came off. The shaft and the spindle, including the roller bearing, actually look great, the problem was, someone apparently thought it was a good idea to put what appears to be red Loctite (or something similar) all over the base and studs - I wondered why the nuts for the spindle were so hard to break loose! Finally got the axle shaft out.

Oh, did I tell you about the PO's affinity for Por-15??? Great stuff for protecting frames, body parts etc. However, I generally would not recommend painting on your axle yokes, u-joints, and the like. It just adds an extra level on difficulty when trying to remove the u-joint. Especially the lock rings... So after some quality time with a scraper and a BFH, the axle u-joints are out!

Axle u-joints, spindle bearing/seal kit, hub service kit and a new set of wheel bearing nuts/washers, and a spindle nut socket are in route. (Used a drift pin to remove the old spindle nut - don't really want to put it back that way!) Already have the wheel bearings and ball joints, so hopefully I can get the ball joints on this side done during the week.

Long ways to go, but I am still having fun!

 

[mtnwhlr]

Long ways to go, but I am still having fun!

That's all that counts. It's a good feeling to be able to tell people I built that. Any pics?

 

[dunebuggy18]

Here's a couple of new pics... I kinda forgot about taking pictures just about the point I started cussin' and spittin' about the spindle not coming off!

Grease in the Locking Hub looks better in the picture than the stuff I wiped out of it... It locked/unlocked freely so, clean-up and a service kit - it'll be good to go!

 

[Petescj]

Yeah they only make them for the Dana 300 , sorry about that. What are you using this Jeep for? The T-15 is a strong Transmission but only a 3 spd. I didnt do the math but Im guessing your crawl ratio isnt going to be real low even with the Tera gears. AMC started using the Dana 300 in '80. About the only descent Transmission of that era was the T-176 4spd. Around here Id look for a rusted out Cj with that Transmission and grab the bellhousing and skid plate right away. I believe the front driveshaft would work but finding a rear one for a CJ5 could be difficult , and you may need to have one made. This would be the easiest bolt in swap.

Theres always the T-18 but that needs to be adapted to the Dana 300 . The Ford version is better than the Jeep version but willl require a little more work to get it in your Cj and running. You can go to Novak adapters site and find a ton of good info about swaps and whats needed to do either one. The Borg-Warner T18 & T19 Transmissions - Novak Conversions

As far as Herm the Overdrive guy I never used him personally. Most of his stuff is for older Cjs than mine. He does have a good reputation and everyone Ive heard of whos dealt with him always has good things to say.

It doesn't look like LoMax has a Dana 20 gearset. If I went that route, how different is the 300? If I have to modify driveshaft(s), use an adapter, etc, probably not worth the upgrade.

Have you (or anyone else) had any dealings with Herm the Overdrive guy?
Tera-Low Products | Herm The Overdrive Guy
He's advertising a rebuilt Dana 20 with 3.15 TeraLow gear set for $1350. Lot of $$ added to the project, but that's a pretty reasonable price for a rebuilt unit and an upgraded gear set. Besides, the price of a rebuild kit, synchro set, and TeraLow gear set, and I am almost there anyway - and that way I can't screw it up!

As it is, I going to have to rebuild the Transmission (bad 2nd gear synchro) - so not having to rebuild both units myself is a plus. Haven't taken apart a manual Transmission in a lot of years, so this will be an adventure!

 

[mtnwhlr]

I have a set of drive shafts for a CJ5 with a T-176 setting in my garage I would be willing to part with.

 

[dunebuggy18]

Stock set-up is an anemic 22.6:1 crawl ratio, the TeraLow gears get me to the mid 30's. A T-176 and Dana 300 with a 4:1 LoMax gear set gets me to 57:1. Now we are talking! Hey, it's only time and money, right?

Swapping the 3 speed for a 4 speed is the long term goal, but unless I can find T-176 and Dana 300 pretty cheap, project $$$ says stay with the T-15 for this round. Got to make it run before I can make it crawl!

I'm going to take a run to the Jeep grave yard in Sacramento, so maybe I can find a good Transmission /diff combo to rebuild. We'll see...

Here's a link to my cheat sheet calculator for crawl ratio:

Gear Ratio Calculator