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1985 CJ 7 Bell crank problem

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1985 CJ 7 Bell crank problem
M

meekorp

Jeeper
Posts
28
Thanks
0
Location
Pleasant Grove
Vehicle(s)
1985 CJ7, 258, T-5, AMC20
Original bell crank popped out of bracket on the tranny side. Decided to upgrade everything with exception of the pedal link rod. Researched using schematics, parts lists, photos, videos, costs, and forum discussions. Assembly and installation was uneventfully intuitive. On test drive in-between shifting from 1st to 2nd, it popped out on the tranny side again, splitting the bushing in half. This was my first go at this so maybe a round of your questions can narrow down whatever flaw I made. Thank you for your help and consideration in this matter.
 
I have tinkered with those bell cranks a few times. To me, it appears to be a poor design as the later CJs have a few of. When the engine motor mounts sag, the engine moves to the rear. This can be easily noticed as the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l valve cover gets quite close to the firewall along with that bell crank tilting back also. This puts a heavier load on the outer pivot and can break it. I was once into a 5 day trip on the Rubicon Trail when the CJ in front me had his bell crank pop out. I was able to make one of those bushings from the plastic lid off a Coleman propane canister. He was able to finish the trail and drive home. Another time I was on a trail deep into what is now called the Surprise Canyon Wilderness. One of the guys broke the outer pivot and his bell crank fell out. Fortunately, he had a onboard welder to repair it. I now have those Bomb Proof motor mounts made by M.O.R.E. in Colorado. Although I still carry spare bell crank bushings in the back of the CJ. Thanks for the story.
 
Did you put the c-clips in?
 
When was the last time you ck'd or replaced your engine and tranny mounts?
LG
 
Torxhead... I think I read a previous thread about the propane cap fix and the sagging engine mounts. The sagging engine mounts is a very good possibility to the cause of this issue.

Mtnwhrl... Yes sir. C clips used and installed per photos found and forum descriptions (that was a learning moment for me because the old ones were gone or half there)

Lumpy Grits... Recent engine installed by a local legend in Jeep wizardry and he did not mention anything. He is super detailed about older CJ's and has never shied away from letting me know if there is a need to replace or upgrade but... that was last year and I will consult him as soon as he gets back from Moab. Good call.

Dan77CJ7... We replaced the shackles, leaf springs, and shocks which resulted in an unintended 1 inch lift. And that was just because the original springs and shocks were so relaxed.

Guys... thank you all for your concerns here. I was on another forum during my research and I experienced an awful thread where members basically ripped a newbie a new one for asking a simple bell crank question which to them was lame. He used inaccurate terminology and they essentially told him to buy a repair manual and get off the forum. Well I have a manual, a competent mechanic (out of town), and will do my own research until I'm stumped so I appreciate you leaving me with just one rectum...
 
meekorp said:
Torxhead... I think I read a previous thread about the propane cap fix and the sagging engine mounts. The sagging engine mounts is a very good possibility to the cause of this issue.

Mtnwhrl... Yes sir. C clips used and installed per photos found and forum descriptions (that was a learning moment for me because the old ones were gone or half there)

Lumpy Grits... Recent engine installed by a local legend in Jeep wizardry and he did not mention anything. He is super detailed about older CJ's and has never shied away from letting me know if there is a need to replace or upgrade but... that was last year and I will consult him as soon as he gets back from Moab. Good call.

Dan77CJ7... We replaced the shackles, leaf springs, and shocks which resulted in an unintended 1 inch lift. And that was just because the original springs and shocks were so relaxed.

Guys... thank you all for your concerns here. I was on another forum during my research and I experienced an awful thread where members basically ripped a newbie a new one for asking a simple bell crank question which to them was lame. He used inaccurate terminology and they essentially told him to buy a repair manual and get off the forum. Well I have a manual, a competent mechanic (out of town), and will do my own research until I'm stumped so I appreciate you leaving me with just one rectum...
Click to expand...

Yeah some of those other forums are kinda brutal. I don’t even waste my time with people like that!
I misread your post I want asking what parts of the clutch linkage you replaced you meantion you left the rod to the pedal. thAt rod will wear a groove where it mounts to the pedal and can cause a bind.
 
Didn't see any noticeable wear on the rod so I decided the time needed wasn't worth swapping it out. And after installation it tested very smoothly through several tries... until I got it on the street where it popped out after two pushes. That's why the engine mount wear is making some sense here.
 
OP, do you have a body lift at all? Any pics of the clutch linkage?

As others have said, check your motor and Transmission mounts. I've seen this issue on 3 Jeeps (including mine). 2 were a combination of the bellcrank being worn out at the pivot ball and bad motor/Transmission mounts. The other time was due to a body lift and worn motor/Transmission mounts.
 
Installed new leaf springs and shocks equivalent to a 1 inch lift but only because the old parts were "old"... no body lift. Everything used in a new linkage kit except the pedal rod and seal. No photos. Ordered motor mounts and I'll check the tranny mounts tonight when I get home.
 
I going to real basic here, when you put it together did you have it all removed from the Jeep? Did you snap the nylon bushings on the balls on both ends? Then slide them into the z-bar and install the c-clips to keep them from coming out the ends? If done right the only way it's going to come apart is to break the nylon bushing or the c-clip.
 
mtnwhlr said:
I going to real basic here, when you put it together did you have it all removed from the Jeep? Did you snap the nylon bushings on the balls on both ends? Then slide them into the z-bar and install the c-clips to keep them from coming out the ends? If done right the only way it's going to come apart is to break the nylon bushing or the c-clip.
Click to expand...

Assembled it exactly like that! And yes... the passenger side nylon bushing split in half. C clips were still in place when examined the failure. Picking up motor and tranny mounts tonight and spending Saturday on my back. Might even replace the oil pan seals since I've got to raise the engine.
 
Before you pull the oil pan seal-See if the head is 'wet' at the back where the valve cover meets.
OLG
 
Do you wheel tough off road?

I messed with replacing parts on mine until I did away with it completly and jumped in on a hydraulic system instead. Was a little tricky to figure out, but well worth it for me...

I don't have much experience with your year jeeps, but on the 74 - you have some adjustments you can make, and some that are made by cutting and welding the push rod / bar from the pedal if the lift changes.

Depending on how long the jeep was sagging, and how long it will remain not sagging, you may want to check out the length measurement situation there...

Since you have the mounts already, it's only going to be a good thing to replace them and try it again, but if you're still having the issue, try to simulate it again in driveway where you can see it. Put some stress on it somehow that would be similar to accelerating stresses etc.

If you are interested in the Hydraulic set up instead, check out my build thread, though yours will be a bit different, and I think it was even possibly a stock option too? Not sure...

I believe Lumpy is saying check if you have a rear main seal or head / valve cover gasket issue if you're trying to diagnose a leak or oily oil pan issue...

Just an assumption.

And yes - we're a very flame free place for people to ask questions. There's some good tech on those other sites sometimes, but you have to weed through the cesspool of elitism...

:chug:
 
I have had the hydraulic clutch master from the beginning and really like it. Sure I have rebuilt it and replaced it also, but all that is pretty cheap and easy, and also I have almost 235 K miles, and still have the original clutch also.
 
JR74CJ5... I do not wheel off road simply because I can hardly afford to keep up with this money pit as it is. I LOVE the CJ but it has it's demons as a fix and go daily drive.

I haven't decided if I want to go to the Hydro kit yet... but if this keeps up, maybe.

I did read somewhere that it was a stock system on a few models for a couple of years

Just had this used engine installed and missed the opportunity to remember to ask to replace the oil pan gasket and rear main seal... that one is on me because it does leak

I'm still going to check out the valve cover and head though

Again, thanks for handling us moderately experienced Jeepers with kid gloves...

Makes for a learning moment and this world has enough bullies
 
meekorp said:
K... I'll update this thread with what I find out

Where are you going with this so I can have a better scope of my situation?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Oil leaking down from the back of the valve cover, will mimic an oil pan or rear main seal leak.
LG
 
[QUOTE

Just had this used engine installed [/QUOTE]

Were you having this problem before the engine swap?
 
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