74 CJ 5-Winch install, Front Bumper Install

[es335]

Took a hard look at the winch mounting kits/bumpers on the market. Just could not find the one that I wanted so I decided to build one myself-with a little help from a local steel shop. For the front bumper I bought a piece of 5/16 channel. A little heavy but , good for my application. I wanted a little cleaner looking the winch mount (the channel is rough), so I had a metal shop bend me two winch plate brackets- 5" wide with two 4" long tabs-90 degree bend. I decided to weld these pieces to the frame after drilling holes on the top to mount the winch plate to. Also, I drilled a 1" hole directly above the steering box bolt. This will make it possible to remove the steering box without cutting off the winch mounts. The winch plate is 5/16 x 6" wide. After welding the two 90degree tabs to the frame, I mocked the winch on the plate, made a pattern for my holes, drilled, and mounted the winch to the plate-fit perfect. I was really concerned about the frame and the torque from the winch. I decided to weld a 3x3 , 3/16" wall square tube in between the frame rails. This made for a much sturdier front section. I used the factory holes for the bumper bolts, drilled the square tubing to match , and ran grade 8 bolts (1 per side,) straight through the bumper, frame and the square tubing. Seemed REALLY stout when it was all tied togther. Welded two 1/2" Clevis tabs to the front, and, for a little addeed style, welded a .120 wall "stinger to the front. Stinger was made by "Trail Tubes" nice people, great product (Western PA location) Last step, welded two 5/16 x 5" tabs to the bumper for the fairlead to mount. Should be good to go now. If anyone sees any problems with this set up, let me know!

 

[mylittlecj5]

I think I'd be concerned with a couple things:

Overkill on the steel. Your making a Jeep, not a tank. 1/4" is good enough for any winch plate.

I personally don't like the way you have the winch up off the frame. That gives the winch a ton of leverage to work on pulling the entire thing apart. I'd like to see it dropped down onto the frame channels and bolted directly thru the frame.

Did you attach the vertical plates to the frame rail by any other means than welds? I don't think I would trust those welds (going on looks alone) to keep my Jeep from dropping off a ledge or cliff. Also, I have been told to NEVER weld a vertical weld to a frame rail, since that will cause it to crack in that area. Not good when that is what holds your winch on.

Visually, it looks good. In execution, I'd re-think it some, and improve the design.

 

[mylittlecj5]

When I did mine, I made it with a new front bumper as well. It is completely bolt-on.
I used a common winch plate, some 1x2 plate I had around (I make my D-ring mounts from it) and a bit of 3/16 plate.
A couple pics of the build:
This is how I used the 1x2 to form the basis of the mount, just stuck it in the frame as far as it would go.

This is a good shot of how I kept the mount right on the frame, and tied the bumper into the mounting point.

and an overall look before I mounted the winch and aux lights.

I don't have a good pic right now of the 3/16 plate, but i used them as tie-ins on the outside of the frame to the bumper, flared to the outside.
Its light, very strong and can withstand pulling the jeep up a tree (BTDT! LOL)

 

[JR74CJ5]

This is what I did.

http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f98/jrs-74-cj5-build-i-go-11231/#post90571




~ JR

 

[es335]

Good feedback guys. Wonder if it would help if I welded the bumper to the tabs I have welded to the frame? Agree re the leverage issue, had me concerned as well. As far as bolting throught the frame, the issue is the steering box on the left side. I can's see how you can use bolts wihout interfering with the steering box. Although, probably could remove it , drill the holes, then put it back on? Also, regarding the welds, there are horizontal and vertical welds. Wouldn't that help the frame cracking issue? The horizontal welds go the length of the tabs (You can't see them since they are on the bottom). The welds appear to have good penetration when you look at both sides of the frame. But, my welding experience is not great (obviously!). Also, two bolts in each side of the frame? That would be stronger than welding the perimeter?

 

[es335]

I think I'd be concerned with a couple things:

Overkill on the steel. Your making a Jeep, not a tank. 1/4" is good enough for any winch plate.

I personally don't like the way you have the winch up off the frame. That gives the winch a ton of leverage to work on pulling the entire thing apart. I'd like to see it dropped down onto the frame channels and bolted directly thru the frame.

Did you attach the vertical plates to the frame rail by any other means than welds? I don't think I would trust those welds (going on looks alone) to keep my Jeep from dropping off a ledge or cliff. Also, I have been told to NEVER weld a vertical weld to a frame rail, since that will cause it to crack in that area. Not good when that is what holds your winch on.

Visually, it looks good. In execution, I'd re-think it some, and improve the design.

Drilling holes and mounting the plate directly to the frame would have definitely been an easier fabrication. I don't think the frame would be strong enough though? My thought was welding the perimeter on the outside of the frame would be stronger than bolting-ie the frame is not that thick. But to your point, I may need to go over the welds again and make them more substantial

 

[mtnwhlr]

My thoughts are what kind of 4wheeling do you do? Unless you are pushing your winch to it's limit I think you will be fine.

 

[es335]

My thoughts are what kind of 4wheeling do you do? Unless you are pushing your winch to it's limit I think you will be fine.[Thanks. Just to be safe I went to a welding shop and had them ck the welds, fabrication etc. THey pretty much said the same as you-should be fine , give it a try. If it breaks, I'll fix it again!]

 

[tarry99]

Took a hard look at the winch mounting kits/bumpers on the market. Just could not find the one that I wanted so I decided to build one myself-with a little help from a local steel shop. For the front bumper I bought a piece of 5/16 channel. A little heavy but , good for my application. I wanted a little cleaner looking the winch mount (the channel is rough), so I had a metal shop bend me two winch plate brackets- 5" wide with two 4" long tabs-90 degree bend. I decided to weld these pieces to the frame after drilling holes on the top to mount the winch plate to. Also, I drilled a 1" hole directly above the steering box bolt. This will make it possible to remove the steering box without cutting off the winch mounts. The winch plate is 5/16 x 6" wide. After welding the two 90degree tabs to the frame, I mocked the winch on the plate, made a pattern for my holes, drilled, and mounted the winch to the plate-fit perfect. I was really concerned about the frame and the torque from the winch. I decided to weld a 3x3 , 3/16" wall square tube in between the frame rails. This made for a much sturdier front section. I used the factory holes for the bumper bolts, drilled the square tubing to match , and ran grade 8 bolts (1 per side,) straight through the bumper, frame and the square tubing. Seemed REALLY stout when it was all tied togther. Welded two 1/2" Clevis tabs to the front, and, for a little addeed style, welded a .120 wall "stinger to the front. Stinger was made by "Trail Tubes" nice people, great product (Western PA location) Last step, welded two 5/16 x 5" tabs to the bumper for the fairlead to mount. Should be good to go now. If anyone sees any problems with this set up, let me know!

ES..........I may as well chime in as others have.
But, first off ....I applaud anyone that's take's the initiative to build something and is still OK with some criticism..........

First thing is the plate spanning the frame rails that the winch is attached to that is laying flat does not seem to have any lateral support to cancel a twisting motion that would occur during a winching event. That winch has the ability to move perhaps 4 tons in a vertical lift.......if it was mounted to a channel as opposed to a flat bar it would be much stronger.

The best way to attache those right angle brackets... if that was your only choice would be to plate the outside of the frame rail with 3/16" steel cut to the frame shape and extend those plates back 12"-16" from the bumper on each side.........then stitch weld the plates top and bottom along the horizontal plane.........then weld your heavy right angle piece to that section.
It does no good to attache a 3/8"-1/2" plate to a 3/16" thick section of frame rail with two welds. The weak point will always be the weld that attaches to the thinner metal. By doing what I mentioned above it spreads the force over a larger area and still only uses the lighter materials.

I believe the stinger needs two tubes tying it back to the top of the frame rails also.....the tube currently in the picture will bend or brake at the weld if it runs into something or is used as there built for.

Good Luck!

 

[Torxhead]

My thoughts are what kind of 4wheeling do you do? Unless you are pushing your winch to it's limit I think you will be fine.[Thanks. Just to be safe I went to a welding shop and had them ck the welds, fabrication etc. THey pretty much said the same as you-should be fine , give it a try. If it breaks, I'll fix it again!]

If it breaks, you could kill somebody. A winch is under a tremendous amount of load when being used, and if something breaks, parts will fly.

 

[es335]

Understanding that you really can't see the mount, here are some points relative two the most recent comments:

-Regarding twisting of the frame-there are actually two pieces that you can't see. There is a flat steel plate-probably 1/8" thick, and 12" deep that connects the two frame rails-it is welded on the top side of the frame rails-ie it connects them. Also, in the very front of the frame, I welded a 3x3 , 1/8 wall square tubing that spans the frame and runs inside the channel on each side. It connects the two frame rails.
-The right angle plates I made are 4" wide, and 4" in length-each "ear". So under the top winch plate there is an additional 4" piece (ie the 5/16 is doubled" under each side for 4". Again, the tabs are welded to the frame the entire perimeter of the tab. This, plus, there is the 1/8" x12" plate mentioned previously that is under that and welded to the frame. These frames are mild steel, I can't see how welding can weaken it anymore than welding other steel-vertical or horizontal. I think Manufacurers started "hardening " frames in the 90's. You should not weld a hardened frame period-I understand that . (many of the late model frames have stamps with "Do Not Weld" warnings)

I have been looking at some of the mounts on this site-two bolts on each side of the top plate, with holes drilled straight down through the frame and bolted on the bottom? Seriously, that is stronger ? I think I"ll take my chances with this one.

Regarding "fly apart and kill someone....Better chance of a roll over, drunk driver etc. Hopefully , none of the above happens!
I realize I asked for input, and, due to the input I did take it to performance shop that welds/modifies frames on a fairly regular basis, and, let them look at it-top to bottom. They were satsified the system is safe. At this point I think I am going to see how it goes. If it breaks, I'll admit it....look at the thread on offroad exhaust-I'm not always right, when wrong I admit it!