Brake Drum Removal

[Nomad127]

Hello from Austin! I just purchased my first Jeep which is a '73 CJ5 . After getting it home and starting the process to update/upgrade everything, I realized the brakes weren't very effective at all. I replaced the MC and want to replace the brake lines as the current end fittings are mangled going into the rear drums. While I've got the rear tires off, I also wanted to check out the brakes but can't get the right drum to come off. The left was easy with a couple taps from a deadblow but the right seems to be held on. It's loose but still not budging. What am I missing? Any suggestions or tricks that I'm not thinking of? It's a Dana 44 rear and the 11in. drums if that helps.
Thanks guys/gals,
Jeff

 

[IOPort51]

If it was an AMC20 I would tell you to take the screws out but I don't think this is an option with the 44. I have seen drums get rusted to the axle hub and be a major pain to get off, I have used the dead blow method and the heat the drum with a torch method and the 50% acetone 50% ATF soak for a couple of hours method. It has always boiled down to brute force in the end. I would try the penetrating oil in conjunction with the hammer. Save the heat for last.

 

[Nomad127]

I'll try soaking it. The weird thing is that I can slightly move the drum back and forth so it doesn't look like it frozen but maybe it could be on stuck spot. Thanks IO!

 

[CJ]

Sounds like the shoes have worn a groove into the drum and are hampering the removal. Did you back off the star wheel all the way?
There is an access slot on the backing plate to do this. It can be done with a screw driver but a star wheel wrench (available at almost all auto part stores) really makes the job easier. Look at the side you pulled the drum off and you can see how to do it.

 

[IOPort51]

^^ sound wisdom^^

 

[Nomad127]

Sounds like the shoes have worn a groove into the drum and are hampering the removal. Did you back off the star wheel all the way?
There is an access slot on the backing plate to do this. It can be done with a screw driver but a star wheel wrench (available at almost all auto part stores) really makes the job easier. Look at the side you pulled the drum off and you can see how to do it.

That's exactly what it feels like the more I play with it. I backed off the adjusting wheel until it stopped. If feels like it's more loose now but still won't come off. I guess I just have to keep hitting it back and forth, huh?

 

[Nomad127]

Got It! Had to pry it from the side that was sticking. Pretty good grooves in the drum and some serious buildup around the inside edge. Going to go see if the local auto store can turn them now. Thanks again IO and CJ!

 

[Nomad127]

Another question: Do you guys do anything to keep mud from getting inside the brakes?
Also, I see a very light amount of fluid leaking from around the axle. Should I be concerned or is that normal?

 

[73CJ]

To keep the mud out - convert to disks.

The only thing you can do is make sure the 2 rubber adjuster plugs are installed. After a mud bath, hit the backside with a hose at the drum and backing plate gap.

The leak could only be from the wheel cylinder or wheel seal. Proably the wheel seal. Good time to change it.

 

[Sasquach]

Are your axles flanged or tapered shaft? If there is a nut on the end of your axle then you have the tapered axle and those have a press fit drum to hub and are nothing short of a pita to get apart and may be easier to remove the entire hub/drum in one move, with any luck you do not have this scenario though.

 

[Nomad127]

Are your axles flanged or tapered shaft? If there is a nut on the end of your axle then you have the tapered axle and those have a press fit drum to hub and are nothing short of a pita to get apart and may be easier to remove the entire hub/drum in one move, with any luck you do not have this scenario though.

There isn't a nut so I'm guessing flanged. How much of a chore is it to change the wheel seal?

 

[Sasquach]

There isn't a nut so I'm guessing flanged. How much of a chore is it to change the wheel seal?

I have no experience with the one peice 44 axle, what you have is very desireable and maybe 73CJ can help you out here. Should be no problem to change seals though.

 

[73CJ]

73's had flanged axles. That's why they really take a beating. To replace the seal you pull the wheel bearing retainer that also mounts the brake backing plate. The wheel bearing has a shrink fit retainer which is a one time use so you have to replace the wheel bearing when you do the seal. I grind a slot in the retainer almost all the way through and hit it with a cold chisel to crack it. Then it will slide off. Stay away from grinding into the axle. Then you can replace the seal. Heat the retainer up in the oven. Best if the wife is shopping when doing that. Get the seal and bearing in place. Moving quickly, put the retainer on and use a long pipe to drive it home. Once it cools, you have to use a press if it's not driven home hot.

 

[CJ]

~~~ use a long pipe to drive it home. ~~~

My axle bearing retainer driving tool... (Hacksaw used for size reference)

 

[Nomad127]

Well, I've changed the master cylinder, ran almost all new lines, replaced the rear wheel cylinders, bled all lines, and adjusted all drums and these brakes are still horrible. Looks like I'll be looking for a later model front axle for a disc conversion. Thanks for all your help.

 

[CJ]

What is your definition of horrible? With properly set-up 11" drums you should be able to lock up the rear wheels (31" and smaller tires) and easily get the front ones to chirp. I could lock up all 4 33's on my CJ5 after I added a brake booster. You can't compare the drums to the BMW or the Ninja though...

1) Mushy or soft pedal? There is still air in the line.

2) Long stopping distance? Could be air in the line or the brakes are not adjusted or assembled correctly. How many times did you brake hard while backing up (to adjust the brakes)? Are the small shoes on the front side of the backing plate?

3) Is the CJ pulling to one side? See #2.

Drums can stop pretty well (Semi's and trains use em), they just can really suck when they get wet! If you go to disks on the front you will also need to change the master cylinder and add a proportioning valve.

 

[Nomad127]

Thanks CJ. I'll try bleeding and adjusting the brakes again and see what that does. Will I need to change the master cylinder if I add a brake booster?

 

[73CJ]

Take up the slack on the star wheel adjuster. Most are self adjusted by backing up and hitting the brakes - over and over. Like CJ said they do work pretty well when dry. And mud and it's all different. They suck then.

 

[Nomad127]

I'll try that as soon as this crappy weather passes. This is Central Texas and colder than Fargo, ND. Not cool.

 

[yuanyelss]

There is an access slot on the backing plate to do this. It can be done with a screw driver but a star wheel wrench really makes the job easier......Did you back off the star wheel all the way?