CJ7 Steering Problems

[rfonte7]

Hello to all, I am new to this forum so please be patient with me. I just bought my first jeep. 78 CJ7 . The PO has done an SOA conversion and has put a 350 in it. Sitting on 33's. Stock front and rear axles. My question pertains to steering. The steering box was loose on the frame and I fixed that and it helped. The jeep still jumps all over the road when you hit a bump. There is no sway bar. People say you don't need them. I don't know that for sure tho. If I install a sway bar will this help, or is it something else? I read alot about drop pitman arms? Would a steering stabilizer help? Wish I had more info, but I don't. Please advise. Thank you in advance!!

 

[CJKrawler]

read through this sticky thread http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f19/troubleshooting-correcting-your-steering-4106/ , it will help you out a lot.

 

[Old Dog]

Some pix of your front set up would help us alot.

 

[Vvajk]

First of all, as a 1st time CJ owner you have to realize that these old Jeeps are not a smooth ride even in the best of situations. This can take some getting used to. The problem can be aggravated when you lift the Jeep on top of that. The PO of my CJ7 installed a "reverse shackle" on the front end of my CJ and told me it's the best $200 he ever spent on the CJ. ( this guy was a mechanic in the army for 27 yrs, so I trust his opinion ) I can't compare to how it was handling before, but from driving other CJs in the past it does seem to make a difference, especially considering it had a lift too. Here's a little article I dug up on reverse shackles. Jeep Leaf Spring Suspension Shackle Reversal - 4-Wheel & Off-Road Magazine

And here's a better article: http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/suspension/154_0604_jeep_shackle_reversal/index.html

 

[fire3096]

First of all, as a 1st time CJ owner you have to realize that these old Jeeps are not a smooth ride even in the best of situations. This can take some getting used to. The problem can be aggravated when you lift the Jeep on top of that. The PO of my CJ7 installed a "reverse shackle" on the front end of my CJ and told me it's the best $200 he ever spent on the CJ. ( this guy was a mechanic in the army for 27 yrs, so I trust his opinion ) I can't compare to how it was handling before, but from driving other CJs in the past it does seem to make a difference, especially considering it had a lift too. Here's a little article I dug up on reverse shackles. Jeep Leaf Spring Suspension Shackle Reversal - 4-Wheel & Off-Road Magazine

And here's a better article: Jeep Shackle Reversal Kit - Forward, Reversed - Jp Magazine

-x2

 

[Old Dog]

A jeep that's set-up right should drive just fine, I have a 4" lift and 33's and it handles fine, yea the short wheel base can make it handle different than a long wheelbase, but it goes down the road straight and is not effected but bumps in the road.
My money is on the PO doing a bad SOA. So I still want some pix of the front end.

 

[Vvajk]

A jeep that's set-up right should drive just fine, I have a 4" lift and 33's and it handles fine, yea the short wheel base can make it handle different than a long wheelbase, but it goes down the road straight and is not effected but bumps in the road.
My money is on the PO doing a bad SOA. So I still want some pix of the front end.

Yeah, I agree. It should track straight and drive relatively smooth, but it's going to be a bumpier more squirrely of a ride than say a full size truck, or a Buick, if that's what you're used to. It takes more getting used to. But, you shouldn't feel like you're taking your life in your hands as you go down the road either.

 

[rfonte7]

Hey guys, thanks for viewing my post. I will try to get pictures this weekend. I notice that on my passengers side, the leaf springs have less arch than the drivers. Both front and rear, but especially the front. My jeep "dives" to the right when you acclerate and let off, and I'm assuming the leafs play a huge role in that. Front shocks are new per the PO, but I don't know what brand they are. May be cheapies! If I replace the leafs, what do I replace them with? Stock CJ leafs or what? Also, the rear shocks appear original. Can this be the case with the SOA conversion? I figured you would have to use longer shocks? I don't plan to do rock climbing or anything major as I live in Indiana. I want the jeep to play around the house with and cruise to town on nice days and that's about it. Don't need a show jeep just yet, just a beater that I don't have to worry too much about. However, I want to mechanically sound so my family can ride with me.

 

[CJ MAN]

The sway bar will do nothing for your bump steer, if your planning on driving it on the street alot a sway bar would be a good idea. As far as the bump steer, look at the link going from the pitnam arm over to the steering knuckle, when you look at it from the front of the jeep it should be almost level, not angling sharply down towards the knuckle. Some SOA kits will cause a drastic angle there and that will cause bad bump steer. You may have to go with a high steer kit to correct it. Install a good stabilizer on the front, especially with the SOA kit. The Jeep springs are not designed to handle the torque of the 350, it sounds like you may need to replace them also, if the PO hammered on it alot it could have semi collapsed the springs. If it doesnt have a drop pitnam arm it probably will need one. Also it probably has wore out bushings in the springs, if you replace the springs, go with poly bushings, they are stronger and will hold up better especially with the 350....hope this helps

 

[rfonte7]

If I replace the springs, what do you recommend for replacement? A used set of CJ stock springs or ? Will add a leafs help me on my current springs, or do you think they are too far gone? Thanks in advance!!

 

[CJ MAN]

If your gonna replace the springs, a Rubicon Express kit with YJ springs in the front. I have this kit on one of my CJs and it is the best money I ever spent. Stay away from add-a-leafs, you may run into a problem using that kit with a SOA kit, Im not sure how yours is set up. Dont use old cj springs, they were weak when they were new. The problem with the SOA kit is there is so many different ways they are done. If done right, there is a ton of custom fab work involved to do them right, which is not usually how you see them done. I would use new springs and bushings, add you a good sway bar, get your steering geometry corrected (most important), and put on a good stabilizer. Done correctly, you should be able to drive 70 mph with no sway and no bump steer....Good luck

 

[rfonte7]

Thanks for all the info. I am a new jeeper and trying to decide if we will use this jeep as much as we think. If we do, we are going to purchase a "better" one next year. That being said, is there a cheaper alternative to the Rubicon Express springs? Will OEM YJ springs work? If I knew the springs were my problem, I'd be more willing to buy them. But as of right now, this is a learning experience for me and I'm trying not to dump a ton of money in this jeep as I'm not sure I will be keeping it too long. I think my steering geometry is off like you said. The bar from the pitman arm to the passenger side knuckle is at quite an angle. I read that you can "flip" it over and help it out some. Is that true? If not, where do you buy the drop pitman arm from and how much drop do I need? Assume I will have to make that measurement since you can't see my jeep!

 

[CJKrawler]

You are going to need new springs. If one side has less arch, then something is wrong, you will need to replace them. For the SOA, you can get a stock YJ spring, just get new, not used. There are some companies that make them, that cost less than the lift springs. The Rubicon Express leaves are nice, because they don't add too much lift, being only a 1.5" lift spring. I would say steering first, as that is the most important. There are plenty of threads on here anout the drop pitman arm, just do a search, I don't have the links in front of me at the moment. One thing about a CJ that you won't get out of a newer Jeep is that appreciation of a vehicle, that if you take care of it, and do things correctly, you can pass it down to your kids, as well as spend a little time with them learning how it operates, as well as how to fix it. Take things one step at a time, and you will find that it will do everything you ask it to, and you will be happy and proud to put the kids in the back and go into town for ice cream.

 

[CJ MAN]

If you do not have a drop pitnam arm you will definately need one, the drop is pretty standard, with the SOA kit it may be hit or miss as to which one to use. Dont flip your arm over, it wont be enough and you will still need more drop, do it right the first time and you will only do it once. That drastic angle is whats causing your bump steer, get it at level as possible, first and foremost. I know the RE springs are expensive, but they are well worth it. They also provide the correct shackle and brackets to go from a CJ spring to YJ. All of the parts are available separately from them also, so if you need to peice together you can. They are very knowledgeable and helpful. They are in CA. From what you have said so far, you definately need springs.

 

[Old Dog]

Something like this is the only real fix.....Down East Offroad.com
If I were you I'd change it back to SUA and make life easy and cheap.

 

[Vvajk]

Something like this is the only real fix.....Down East Offroad.com
If I were you I'd change it back to SUA and make life easy and cheap.

What does SOA and SUA mean? Not sure on the acronym. Is it do with having the springs over or under the axle?

 

[BajaEdition]

spring over axle
spring under axle

 

[CJKrawler]

If you go back to spring under axle, you have to cut the spring perches off and re weld them back onto the bottom of the axle. It could be done in a weekend, if you know what you are doing, but you MAY need to replace your driveshafts, unles you get lift springs to make up for some of the difference. Just reversing the springs will add, or remove, 5 inches of lift.

 

[Buuushman]

Not to hijack, but with the YJ conversion, is it for the front only, or do you do all four? I still have the stock 7 leaf fronts and they are so stiff, rough pavement will rattle me off the road. Also, will they handle the weight and torque of a mildly built 360?

Thanks,
Bush

 

[CJKrawler]

I don't know about handling the power of the 360, I am going to try with a 350, but they are a little softer ride, onlly a 5 leaf in the front. There is a heavy duty 6 leaf you might be able to find. The rear CJ and YJ springs are the same, the fronts are the only ones that are different. If you decide to change, I would change them all, so that they are all the same rate, personally. Although, someone may have experimented with differnent springs ratees, and found that it worked.