Does this angle look too steep?

[TroyaCantrell]

A you may have seen I picked up my first jeep, '66 CJ6 , and about to get started getting it back on the road.

One of the first problems is the steering. It is very difficult to steer the thing at all, it doesn't. Come back to center hardly at all. It still has the Ross Cam setup and the rig was lifted 2.25" with a set of Rancho leafs and shackles. I know there is a probably a ton of wear in all the ends but does the angle on these tie rods look too steep? Seems this would cause it to bind.

That is a level across the leafs!

 

[tarry99]

A you may have seen I picked up my first jeep, '66 CJ6 , and about to get started getting it back on the road.

One of the first problems is the steering. It is very difficult to steer the thing at all, it doesn't. Come back to center hardly at all. It still has the Ross Cam setup and the rig was lifted 2.25" with a set of Rancho leafs and shackles. I know there is a probably a ton of wear in all the ends but does the angle on these tie rods look too steep? Seems this would cause it to bind.



Well First off you have a lift and also extended shackles. Neither one complements that old Ross steering.
If your going to keep it for a while upgrading to the Saginaw steering gear system either power or not would probably be the way to go.
That gear normally mounts in front of the cross member between there and the bumper on the drivers side. I usually bore a hole through the cross member and send the steering shaft towards the column via a Double D collapsible shaft with two u-joints. Good chance your column can be used over again with some surgery............or if a tilt column is in your future now is the time.You will have to add a new drag link pittman arm and tie rod to your list also.

 

[Sasquach]

You have two choices the way I see it. 1. go back to a MUCH more stock configuration with lift and rebuild steering components as nessesary including looking into your closed knuckle kin pin bearings etc.
2. if you must have lift and big tires then scrap out your complete steering setup as you know it and go with a more modern system along Tarry's thoughts.
What you have with the long shackles is a rolled forward axle negating the designed in wheel caster and while raising the axle away from the bellcrank causes the tow in/out to go all over the board during suspension travel.
Those are my thought's anyway.

 

[TroyaCantrell]

Thanks a ton to both of you. I have been reading every thread on steering issues I could find. Sasquach, particularly the piece about the shackles changing the caster. I did not put that together but once you know what you are looking for you can see that the axle is rolled forward.

I don't NEED all the lift and big tires, although my wife loves the howl of swampers, PO had 35s on at one point 32 x 11.50s on 10" Cragers now. It needs rims and tires too though!

If i understand standard shackles are 4" from center to center, these are 5.75, so going back to a standard shackle would give me back my desired caster?

The thing that has me in a quandary is that my wife, only 4' 11" will drive it and would want / need the power steering and the tilt wheel. So i could go tarry's route but it would be more expensive when i am going to have a lot going into it right now.

Decisions, Decisions.

Seriously though, thanks a bunch. I have been lurking on the forum for about a month and as long as folks are serious and engaged you all give great advise and are patient with the newbies.

 

[Sasquach]

Standard shackles are 3" and possibly only 2-3/4" on your early CJ.

 

[TroyaCantrell]

Wow, so that could be 3" on the shackles giving about 1.5 of lift over all on top of the new leafs. Those 3"s are really going to jack the caster.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[tarry99]

Wow, so that could be 3" on the shackles giving about 1.5 of lift over all on top of the new leafs. Those 3"s are really going to jack the caster.

Thanks again for the info.

2.75 inches is the stock length

 

[TroyaCantrell]

No wonder it steers like a cement truck.

 

[tarry99]

No wonder it steers like a cement truck.

I know people that still use it and if your use factor is 40-45 mph maximum on the pavement then perhaps you may get by. I also believe you mentioned towing this , that in itself would also be and adventure.
I have also used it years ago and truthfully even when correct it is unruly to say the least. Hard to park, hard to turn off road in dirt or mud............just a real antiquated method of steering.
I believe you said your wife is 4'11" and was going to drive this....good luck! Make the change and save your marriage

 

[TroyaCantrell]

Thanks Tarry, that is the conclusion I was coming to. As soon as I understood the caster impact and what that would do to towing my mind was made up. The shackles have got to go. I disconnected the tie rods from the bell crank and there seemed like there was too much play there too so I got a rebuild kit for it. Once I get it down off those shackles and that fixed I will go through the rest of the linkage and checking for ware. I was thinking of just ordering new parts for it all but I think one thing at a time now. I will get rid of the slop and the caster issue and see where that gets me. I am sure that the knuckles will be coming apart too very soon.

Unfortunately I have family in-law in town this weekend so not sure how much I will get done this weekend.

Thanks again!

 

[Sasquach]

I will say that my CJ3b was as poor a steering vehicle as ever produced...untill I went through the entire Jeep rebuilding EVERYTHING and in stock form it now steers perfectly and with very little effort.
If your Jeep is kept close to stock this system in good working order is perfectly fine, lifted and oversize tires then it becomes another piece of the modification puzzle.

 

[TroyaCantrell]

That is great to hear. Tire decision is next. It is sitting on 15 x 10 with 32 x 11.50s now. I need to figure out replacements soon a they are not safe. The shackles are going and I took off the busted up flares and ordered OEM style flares for it. I wa thinking maybe 31x 10.50 but not sure abut the fit on the rims. Rims could go too, they are , but my budget is getting stretched right out of the gate.