Early CJ5 YJ conversion. Best way

[jwillys]

OK, I know there is a lot of different threads on this, but when I search, a lot of it is on the newer CJ's. I am in talks with Rocky Road right now. I am wondering if their kit is the best way to go, or if it's go some wasted parts that I wont need that I could just order seperately. I was considering an SOA, but not wanting to spend that much. I need some good lift to fit my 35" tires. I don't care much about the ride on the road, because it will never be over 35PMH. I will do occasional trail riding, and would like flex and durability. What do I all need to take into consideration? Drop spindle, relocate shock mounts to axle, tie rod flip, etc? I think the kit from Rocky Road is about $450. It seems that there are some threads that claim all I need is some yj springs and some different shackles and mounts. What do you think? I think I need about 4" of lift. Should I just go with the Rocky kit and 4" lift kit? I have a Willys body which appears to be forgiving of large tires...

 

[jwillys]

I wouldn't mind doing an SOA but Rocky Road said their kit had a lot of parts that would be wasted because they are bolt on for a newer CJ. What are the extra costs to go to an SOA? I am just weighing my options. I wouldn't mind using 2.5" yj springs and an soa kit, but not sure if I could just use a drop pitman arm, and angle the axles up and weld on the perches etc... any suggestions. Thanks guys.

 

[BajaEdition]

willeys
do you know all that is involved in a SOA
do you know about steering geometry
do you know about driveshaft geometry
do you know how to weld?

because you are about to open a huge can of worms, and judgeing from your previous post you are not up to it.

I know from earlier post you have a lot of issues to deal with in this jeep before you go into a lift. You want brakes, are they done yet? Your steering needs to be adapted to the new Dana 30 , is that done yet?

Once again, you need to do this step by step, if you go and start 20 projects at once, this jeep will end up being on jacks on the side of the yard till you sell it as a project jeep to someone else to finish/

I admire your zeal, but you need to finish one project before going on to the next. otherwise you will end up with noting but a pile of parts and unfinished projects.

 

[jwillys]

In order to plan a complete project, do you think it would be wise ti investigate all possible scenarios? This is what I'm doing. I am. trying to gather information on steering, brakes, suspension, tires, engine, Transmission , etc so that I can create a working budget. This way I can start figuring out what I will need and when I will need it. If I do one project and then start gathering info for the next after that is complete, I am going to run into problems. If I do the brakes to find out that I should've waited until I did the steering or suspension, I will be back tracking. So if you would like to help me that's fine. Please help answer my questions.If anyone has an answer to my question about CJ5 suspension and would like to help a new jeep enthusiast, please do so. It would be greatly appreciated. Yes I understand there will be a lot of changes and that is why I am asking... I understand there will be geometric changes etc. I am looking for details or suggestions. Yes, I can weld. (Mainly with my 220 wire welder, not so much with my portable stick) . So, back to the suspension...

 

[Sasquach]

Well your responce is admirable but in reality choosing to modify an early vintage CJ is no beginners task to do right. You are really talking about reengineering a complete vehicle and no one on any forum can guide you through it with great results. What I am getting out of this is you would be money ahead to buy something later that has the basics you want or was offered as an option for that year you are working with this way the engineering has been done for you as well as aftermarket parts for lifts and such available.

 

[gliryan]

Just on the leafs. You'll need to get shackle and leaf hangers, shackles, and wider leaf clamps for the ubolts. I bought new spring perches for the axles, but idk, seems like they are not really needed as the springs aren't that much wider than the perches. I may run it like this for now and see what happens….

Also make sure when you order shackles and hangers you get the ones that match your leafs. I ended up with cj shackle hangers (1" i.d.) and yj small bushing shackles (1.25" o.d.). So I am building my own hangers now after wasting $50 on those.

And you're not going to want to run that bellcrank setup… It sucks. But if you can get a big drop arm it would work, not well however.

Rocky kit is nice, but way expensive. You can piece together stuff much cheaper.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Heres my .02.. all my experience is with 76 and up Cj's

wrangler springs= you should change the perches on the axles if they are not 2.5'' wide.. most are 2".. Now the truth is I know several people that are running 2.5" wide springs on 2" wide perches. I think there is a little bit of clearancing that needs to happen on the dif side of the axle. you will have to open up the holes on your spring plate for the wider springs. For the cost of new I would buy new or used plates. On the 76 and up the the spring hanger on the frame is already the right width for the 2.5" springs. The front shackle mounts need to be changed to to 2.5" wide. you can get a set of CJ rears for 76 and up and they will almost bolt right to the front where the shackle goes with no issues... again this is for newer CJs.

As for the amount of lift needed for 35''s I have 4" springs under mine SUA and have plenty of room. my biggest problem is the body needing to be cut. the wells are not 35" wide. A SOA is about 6" of lift. I would do a 4" spring lift with a 1" body and you should be fine. A drop pitman arm should keep you where you want to be for the steering geometry.

SOA set ups. Those are a sore subject. Most guys go that route because for the price of perches and shocks.. less then 200 you can get that 6" lift. Next thing you know your steering is screwed up and arms are hitting your springs so you drop money into a fancy Z bar or SS drag link and tie rod flip. Then your back on here complaining that you still have horrible death wobble. because your drag link flexes and bend so its drives like poop. the next way to fix the issue is to get some high steer arms so your hitting JY trying to peice some crazy knuckle, splndle, rotor, bracket, caliper combos together and complaining because is not working right. In the end a decent priced well built set of lift springs would have done you well.. from the beginning.

really read up on the SOA.. dont let your cheap, redneck, back woods friends talk you into one with out knowing exactly whats involved.. and 35mph cam be pretty fast for a jeep especially off road. last thing you want is to hit a rock and wedge your tie rod into your spring and get stuck driving in circles..

and like I said in the beginning of the post most of my knowledge comes from 76 and up CJ's so insert it where it will work for ya.

 

[ken98k]

really read up on the SOA.. dont let your cheap, redneck, back woods friends talk you into one with out knowing exactly whats involved.. and 35mph cam be pretty fast for a jeep especially off road. last thing you want is to hit a rock and wedge your tie rod into your spring and get stuck driving in circles..

Unless you're willing to put the TIME and MONEY into high steer knuckels and all the stuff that goes with it, don't do the soa.
I have the Bubba soa lift on my 74 and while it looks cool it drives like shi-ite.
Next summer I plan on switching back to sua with 2.5 springs.

 

[Buckrub]

Hello all!
Just my 2 cents here, but I am currently in the process of lifting my 76 CJ5 . I opted for not doing the spring over lift since I needed new springs any way. Rocky mountain had 4" Fabtec YJ springs for about $88 each. Paid a little over 450 with shipping and new spring bushing kit. I also used Rocky Road for my YJ shackle adapter kit for the front and spring plates all around. This stuff is as about as solid as it can get. I figure I have about 800 in all parts like U bolts and mounting hardware upgrades. The only reason I didn't buy a complete kit is due to the kit I felt was worthy was not in production(Rubicon express) I already had the pittman arm longer stainless brake lines and tranny drop. If I had to do it again I would go with Rubicon Express(Not sure if they make a conversion for the pre 76 era). In the end you would have a complete lift suspension minus shocks with a solid warranty(Unless they revamp again). Its a no brainer.
Some other things you need to know when going to 35" tires. I am doing the 35 x 12.5's. I just fitted the rear narrow track with the rear axles and put on the tires. I need spacers since the rims I bought were a 4" back space. So keep this in mind. Even with the two inch back space I am going to be Limited with extreme travel since my tires are now level with the top of my frame. Make sure you have a wide track and keep that back spacing shallow. I expect I will rib my frame when I get into serious flex. Hopefully when I finally get the body back on it will sag some. The top of my hood will be at 67" without a body lift. I figure when my spacers do arrive I will only net about 2 3/4" clearance to the frame (I am at 1 1/4" now)
So why the long winded story...... I spent alot of time rebuilding an axle and dont care to replace it ,so I have to make it work. I spent a lot of time buying a suspension that wasn't my first choice and again this is costing me more time and money. Take the time research every aspect, listen to the advice you get here. I know that you will save time and money in the long run with lot's of planning and measuring. Keep in mind there is alot I have found that I did wrong and it cost me some, I also have a long way to go I dont care to make the rest of the build cost as much in time or money. LEARN FROM ALL OUR MISTAKES!
Hopefully your rig isn't your daily driver so you can take some time, if it is then all bets off.
eRNIE

 

[JR74CJ5]

A lot of people have already given you similar opinions to mine, though I do not wish to "discourage" you from your goals / plans, I want to ensure you are aware the magnitude of the project and the possible draw backs. Axle wrap for one, and a few other con's.

So I'll Leave out all that as it sounds above like you are aware, and trying to pre-research all the particulars responsibly. (that sounded like talking down to you, but not my intentions... )

When I was looking into the YJ / wrangler springs, This place seemed to be if nothing else a great place for the whole kit. and the good OME spring reputation..

CJ to YJ spring conversion kit for 1955-1975 Jeeps

I wouldn't mind doing an SOA but Rocky Road said their kit had a lot of parts that would be wasted because they are bolt on for a newer CJ. What are the extra costs to go to an SOA? I am just weighing my options. I wouldn't mind using 2.5" yj springs and an soa kit, but not sure if I could just use a drop pitman arm, and angle the axles up and weld on the perches etc... any suggestions. Thanks guys.

That link is for the early CJ not the 76+. Should include no extra parts. And all the costs are available on the site for reference.

They also state they are aware the site may be confusing, and encourage you to call or e-mail with any and all questions.

I did, and they were great with honestly responding, and not trying to just up sell me.

If you scroll far enough down, there is a kit for both mods all together.

Spring over & Spring conversion. This appears to be a very inclusive kit, but, I encourage you to read it fully, as I may have missed something that would be needed in addition.

I ultimately did not go this route, as the springs, spring over, etc are not necessary for the type of wheeling I like to do (i like extreme rough trails, but not 6' rock climbing... yet anyways ) , nor are they good for the safety on road / corners I desire... (I often drive my rig to the trails, and tend to have a lead foot, though I do not drive my CJ like a Dodge Viper would get owned... )

I can not argue that this looks AWESOME though


Ultimately this is your decision and your jeep, we all just care about the jeeps and fellow owners to not want to see the same old "oops, shouldn't have messed with it, it's junk now" happen again. We've all seen it many of times.

And if you DO decide to go this route, please document a great write up for future references!

~ JR

 

[JR74CJ5]

In addition, to answer more of your question(s):

You will need:

• Yes you will need to angle the axle yokes towards the Transfer Case , and in addition change to a Double C Joint Drive shaft - Here's some reading:
  
  From: Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts - Tom Woods Custom Drive Shafts Custom Driveshafts Specialist
• You will also need a high steer kit of some sort. again if we are speaking of doing it the right way... A drop pitman arm is not the "correct" way of obtaining your angles of draglink and tie rod. Tie rod flip + possibly a high steer knuckle kit would serve a better purpose. Read: http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f19/tie-rod-flip-10552/
• You will need to re-position shocks correctly I believe. (not sure, don't have links for ya there...)
• You will need to "possibly" think of different axle gearing / models (i did not remember what your current setups are, or know if you are already planning this in your project...
• You will need to extend brake lines
• You will need to remember you are much much higher than the short wheel-base was designed for, so Remember DO NOT hot rod around corners, and possibly look into a street sway bar kit.

All this is just from the topics I have read over my year on this site, and many MANY threads, and responses from a lot of the same guys up there ^^^



This is just what I remember off the top of my head, I'm not a jeep pro, point is, there are probably 10 more things I don't even know about...



~ JR

 

[jwillys]

I have done a ton more reading and talking to others, including Rocky Road, and I narrowed it down to upgrading to the YJ springs, and either 4" sua springs for a yj, or stock yj springs and going to a smaller tire. I would really like to keep the larger tires, but am uncertain of what else I would need to do with this type of lift. I am definitely not going to do an soa now. Thanks for all the warnings etc. I took a good look at the springs I currently have under my CJ5 and they are shot. some are even bent... They are a 4" lift (2" spring) spring, but the shackles look weak. I would like to just get the new spring perches for the yj springs and get the new 2.5" shackles and spring mounts for all four corners. Any one have a suggestion as to where I should get these? Am I going to be just as well off getting the kit from Rocky Road that takes into consideration that I have the early cj? Or would it be much cheaper to just get the later style shackles and mounts for the rear, and put on the front. A little concerned about mounting directions as far as distances to mount and weld the spring shackles and mounts, and where to get them. Thanks again guys.

 

[JR74CJ5]

In response to PM.

What did you end up doing for your 74? How did it work? I am considering going to a smaller tire and just running stock yj springs. Either that or get some 4" lift springs and do the yj conversion and keep the same tires. I will post more of a reply on the thread. Just curious what you did on yours. thanks again

Again, I have very Limited knowledge as far as some of the guys go on here, except for what i have researched myself.

I did not go this way mostly because those springs will have a lot of droop in them compared to stock type springs. They also were simply over-kill for the type of wheeling I do.

I do wheeling at a very slow crawling pace, and enjoy the challenge of picking a good line instead of going straight over anything in my way.

I also did not go this way because I simply do not have the time and money to do it all correctly. The steering geometry alone at that time was as much a mystery to me as whether there is life on Mars or not is now.

My basic plan:

I like 33" tires. At the most, one day I may climb to 35's but That will be after a total frame off re-build, and doing it all the correct way.

My tub is not in perfect condition, nor do I ever plan for it to be a show-room jeep. It's my DD, but also a trail toy... $2000.00 paint job will never be in the future.

Currently, my 33's only rub on extreme flexes. Remember I wheel very slowly, so the rub is not killing anything, except possibly limiting a very minute amount of torque to the ground (body providing resistance) and scuffing my tires a little. I have stock high springs, with tall shackles now. The shackles are only about 1.5" over stock 3" so i technically only have around 3/4" of lift.

I plan to remove these shackles, going to a heavyduty, more close to stock height shackle, 2-1/2" lift spring, and most likely will do a little body trimming in the wheel well areas.

I do this for a few reasons.

• 2.5" will not require near as much extra mods to preform as a 4" or SOA. (steering geometry will still be affected, but fixable with the simple tie rod flip mod.)
• I want to keep my center of gravity as low as possible, while gaining clearance. This is where the trimming comes in, and my lack of need to not trim my body helps me. I can gain the same amount of clearance (body wise) that a 3.5" / 4" lift spring will get, while not affecting my COG near as much. COG is crucial to me due to driving on the road, and not wanting to roll on various technical trail sections.
• and last but not least, Not desiring to climb my lazy up an extra 4" to get in...

There were more reasons too, but those are the main ones.

And check out my pic in signature line... that is from the CA Rubicon Trail. there are more in my gallery, trail trip reports I've done, and photo-bucket. You can see the 33's are a tad stuffed, but again this is with no real lift except that 3/4" shackle I spoke of. With a 2-1/2" lift spring set, they will be damn near perfect in my opinion.

If you have never owned or wheeled a jeep (CJ) before, my advice it to test it or look at at least some videos. These little buggers will do some crazy stuff stock man... My uncle and I went a ways up the Rubicon trail in sierra's and some modded bronco's could not believe our stock looking CJ's just came from the sections we were. It's all a personal preference.




~ JR

 

[Jimbos76cj]

I buy all my suspension brackets from companies like ruff stuff or discount jeep part. For the shackle hanger there a site called Crabtreetools.com. The guy has some really strong shackle hangers that he machines out of solid blocks they run between 30-50% more then the stock hangers but are much better in quality and strength. I would recommend upgrading to them if possible.

Also if your gonna get the springs separate from the spring hangers make sure you know what size the width of the bushings. If you're springs are 2.5" wide you will probably need a 3" hanger with the bushing width.