Ford 5.0L swap? What's involved?

[raser13]

OK boys and girls, time to get serious about my jeep's. I've been trying to keep my CJ5 pretty much stock or at least AMC. Mostly because I also like to restore AMC cars.and I like to keep them "in the family". But my jeep is starting to loose that battle. My classics will stay AMC. But I'm really beginning to start to look for alternatives.

I know that a Ford T-5 bell housing will bolt right up to my T-176 . So that part is bolt on. And that the splines will match up to the clutch. But what about the pilot bearing? Is there a conversion kit for bolt on motor mount points? Or do I have to weld them on? I'd like to make this reversible if at all possible.

I'd love to jump up to fuel injection. Any major wiring concerns there? I have no problems doing a rewire on this whole jeep. The harness has been raped hard several times in it's life and needs replacing anyhow. Just need to make sure I grab everything needed from the donor the first time. And anti theft is the other thing I'm worried about.

I'm just getting tired of waiting weeks for parts that I know others can just walk in and buy. All because I'm sporting an AMC motor. One broke part and I'm off the trail. Any other motor and I might be able to run to a parts house.

I'm looking at the Ford motor because the Transmission is a simple, bolt up procedure. It's small and compact for better fitment. And the five had a Chevy 350 originally in it. Kept breaking and bending distributors. Kept hitting the fire wall. Even after "adjusting" the wall with a hammer as far as I could with the vent system on the other side. Had no room to work with. They had the fuel line strapped to the exhaust for crying out loud!

So the ford conversion looks easier, and more bolt on. But I'm open to suggestions. So make your case if you think there is a better idea. Remember budget, and novice fab skills. Or point me towards a goid walkthrough. I tried the search. No luck.

So hook me up and let me know the pitfalls, and pros and con's.

 

[HackFabrication]

So the ford conversion looks easier, and more bolt on. But I'm open to suggestions. So make your case if you think there is a better idea. Remember budget, and novice fab skills. Or point me towards a goid walkthrough.

Grab a case of cold one's, a shopping bag full of munchies, and start reading:

TOTW: Ford 302 engine swaps - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Is it a 'simple swap'? Yeah. Sorta.

 

[hole]

I'm a Blue Oval guy through and through, but I'd suggest looking at a 4.0 I6 swap. Heck, even just a 4.0 head with MPI on your existing AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l will modernize you quite a bit. Finish it off with a CS130/144 alternator and about the only older AMC thing left is a PS pump

 

[raser13]

Grab a case of cold one's, a shopping bag full of munchies, and start reading:

TOTW: Ford 302 engine swaps - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Is it a 'simple swap'? Yeah. Sorta.

holy good god! a hundred pages? this is going to take me a while to get through.

i've thought of jumping up to the 4.0L as well. right now i'm trying to find all my options difficulty of each. upgrades that can be done to each. so i can try to figure out the best of each and availability of parts of each.

 

[HackFabrication]

i've thought of jumping up to the 4.0L as well. right now i'm trying to find all my options difficulty of each. upgrades that can be done to each. so i can try to figure out the best of each and availability of parts of each.

If your present AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l is toast (or soon to be), simplest would be to just drop in a 4.0L with the EFI. Lots, and lots of information on the swap.

IMO, and I've posted this before, V8 engine swaps in order of simplicity/ease:

AMC 304 /360/401
GM - any SBC
Ford - 302/351
The rest including diesels

The basic GM throttle body or Ford MPI is fairly simple to install. There is good aftermarket support for either, with the edge going to GM.

Performance parts abound for either the SBC or SBF. Final results are a topic of many heated discussions.

The Ford Racing 5.0L in my CJ5 : SVO aluminum heads, GT40 tubular manifold, 24# injectors, 65mm throttle body, matching MAF, Ford Racing 'B' cam, F-AMC 150 headers, and A9L 'chipped' computer puts out approximately 350 hp at the crank. More than enough for me in this vehicle.

 

[raser13]

Yep, AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l is starting to die. Loosing compression, oil blow by on the valves, lifters ticking, main seals leaking. She's tired but not dead. She can limp along while I get informed, and collect up parts. I really need something pretty plug and play. I use this jeep as a DD. So I pretty much have to have a weekend swap planned. Nothing can go wrong there right? Lol.

I am curious why you rate the Chevy motors up above the fords for ease of swap? From what I've been reading on both the ford swaps and the Chevy 350/LS engines. The fords seem almost bolt in. I can use the ford bell housing to adapt to my Transmission . I would use the ford flywheel and pressure plate, and jeep clutch disk. I have to get a special pilot bearing from novac adaptors. A set of m.o.r.e. motor mount adaptors. Bolts to the stock frame location an to the stock motor side holes. The radiator needs universal flex radiator hoses. And the just power and grounds to the stock 5.0l wiring harness. I know this is over simplifying it greatly. Just didn't want to go on forever.

But the Chevy's seem to be needing an adaptor on all of the points the the motor touches the jeep.

I'm also asking this for my project scrambler. I think that even if the 5 gets a 4.0 the scrambler is going to go full 5.0. Don't know yet. Still researching so I might change my mind if in find a stumbling block some where.

 

[HackFabrication]

I really need something pretty plug and play. I use this jeep as a DD. So I pretty much have to have a weekend swap planned. Nothing can go wrong there right? Lol.

I don't think there are any weekend swaps, when it comes to putting a 'bastard' engine in a CJ. Best to drop in a rebuilt AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l if time is a consideration.

I am curious why you rate the Chevy motors up above the fords for ease of swap?

There is tons more aftermarket support for the SBC swap versus the SBF swap. With the LS swaps becoming popular, more and more 'stuff' is also becoming available for them.

From what I've been reading on both the Ford swaps and the Chevy 350/LS engines. The Fords seem almost bolt in. I can use the ford bell housing to adapt to my Transmission . I would use the Ford flywheel and pressure plate, and jeep clutch disk. I have to get a special pilot bearing from novac adaptors. A set of m.o.r.e. motor mount adaptors. Bolts to the stock frame location an to the stock motor side holes. The radiator needs universal flex radiator hoses. And the just power and grounds to the stock 5.0l wiring harness. I know this is over simplifying it greatly. Just didn't want to go on forever.

But the Chevy's seem to be needing an adaptor on all of the points the the motor touches the jeep.

It is true that the T-176 Transmission will 'bolt up' to a Ford bellhousing with the 'butterfly' pattern. But on Fords, the bellhousing, flywheel, and starter must all 'match'. You can't use a 10.5" flywheel inside an 11" bellhousing and have the starter engage the teeth. Fords are either 157 tooth or 164 tooth. Most 164 tooth flywheels will accept the smaller clutch, because they are drilled for both. You will also need a 50oz imbalance flywheel if you are going to run the 5.0L HO engine with EFI. Ford also has a 28oz flywheel which you can't use.

You will also need to come up with some sort of modification to the stock clutch mechanism. Lot's of options, all depending on what your fabrication skills are. If you already have a juice clutch, then it becomes a bit easier.

For the SBF: What you are going to want to find is a bellhousing off an 80's vintage F-series with either the 302 or 300 I6. Get everything: housing, spacer, fork. Pick up a new 164t, 50oz flywheel, and get the appropriate starter. I went with a PMGR style starter as opposed to the OEM.

The M.O.R.E. mounts will move the engine, which may (or may not) cause problems with the crossmember/skidplate location. It did on mine, and I had to go with a custom skidplate. Which is a much better design than OEM.

Going EFI, you will need to add a high pressure, electric fuel pump. And a return line to the gas tank. Lots of options.

Yes, the OEM Ford EFI harness can be re-worked. But, at best you are taking a 24 year old harness (1993 Mustang), and expecting it to be fine. Most wiring harness have a life expectancy of 25 years (with obvious exceptions). There are a lot of plastic connectors that have probably seen better days on any used harness. But, there are a few aftermarket 'plug and play' harnesses available. The OEM Ford EFI harness is a real 'piece of work'. I had three of them. Tore them apart, saw the really crappy design/manufacturing, and got rid of them. Bought an aftermarket 1 piece harness, and never looked back. If you don't need to pass smog, going the extra dollars for an aftermarket conversion harness is my recommendation.

You will need to source an ECM. Either the A9P or A9L are good. However, it will be likely that one or two of the traces are burnt through (on a used ECM). This is often caused by using the wrong O2 harnesses.

If you've managed to read through the thread on Pirate, here's one of my build threads: 1976 CJ5 Resto/Mod Not too in depth, but I tried to hit a few of the high points.

Any additional specific questions, email me: hackfabrication@hotmail.com

 

[poppatello]

So which way did u end up going???