Front leaf spring alignment

[billyballer]

I recently installed 2.5" lift OME YJ springs on my CJ7 . I was running 2.5" lift springs before too, but they were old and super stiff. I also swapped in a newly built Dana 30 to replace my old stock Dana 30 . So the changes were new axle and new springs. So now I"m battling some serious handling issues. Hard to describe, but the jeep feels very nervous on the highway now. The overall height has not changed at all compared to the previous springs, and I'm running the same height shackles (a little over .5" lift). One thing I did notice is when I installed the front springs I attached the rear of the spring first, then attached it to the axle with u bolts, then attached the front shackles. When just the rear was attached and it was bolted up to the axle, the front of the springs did not line up perfectly with the frame. the both were about .5-1" offset to the outside of the shackle/frame, so I really had to tug them over.

I'm not really sure what would cause this. Maybe an issue with the axle itself? I guess I really want to know if this is contributing to my handling issues.

I have done a floor alignment at my shop and set the toe at about 1/16th in. I didn't add castor shims because I didn't change shackle height so didn't see the need because it handled well before.

At this point I'm just taking stabs in the dark. I suppose it's possible that the softer OME springs require better shocks and I need to step those up.

Open to suggestions and I'll try to grab some pictures of the springs.

 

[mtnwhlr]

It sounds like a castor problem to me and you said you didn't use the castor shims.

 

[billyballer]

It sounds like a castor problem to me and you said you didn't use the castor shims.

I see what you're saying, except that my previous setup was a 2.5" lift with the same shackles and no shims and it drove and handled great.

Is it possible that the axle I swapped in had different castor specs? Did jeep change castor on axles from year to year?

 

[Torxhead]

You could check that castor with a level/protractor and increase that toe in a bit. Even installing those shims to notice any difference couldn't hurt.

 

[PaRenegade]

First thing to come to mind, is the + painted on the spring at the stationary mount (rear of the front spring / front of the rear spring)? The shims that come with it should have been used and the thick end should be to the front for the front spring. Not all spring arches are equal and therefore the caster can be different. That can go for the axle perches too, not all are equal. I'd get yourself an angle gauge for around $10 and measure your caster first to see where your at, then we can go from there.
When you attached the U-bolts, did you tighten them first or just attach them somewhat loosely? Everything should be bolted up before any final torquing is done, that way things can adjust themselves into place.

 

[billyballer]

So I checked castor today and re-checked/adjusted toe. Just FYI the springs did not come with degree shims. I have an old school alignment gauge the kind that clamps to the outside of the wheels and has bubble levels for caster, and camber. So the way you check with the gauge is to turn the wheel 40 degrees one direction, take a reading, turn it 40 degrees the other direction, take a reading, and your castor angle = the difference. My castor is 6 degrees, which seems to be right about normal. I played with my toe and got it to about 1/8th toe in. I haven't driven much since I re-checked the toe, I did tweak it a little more in. I wonder if I should add 2 more degrees of castor to see what happens?

As for the U-bolts, I did tighten them before connecting up the front spring. I'll try taking it back apart and assembling all ends loose first and torque with some weight on it.

Tempted to throw some new shocks at it as well, just to see what happens.

 

[hole]

I had a similar problem after installing my OME springs. After looking at the springs for a minute I realized that the spring at the bottom thats about 6" long is tapered. I loosened the center spring pack bolt, dropped u bolts and turned the tapered spring 180 degrees and put everything back together. Made all the difference in the world.

 

[PaRenegade]

As for the U-bolts, I did tighten them before connecting up the front spring. I'll try taking it back apart and assembling all ends loose first and torque with some weight on it.

No don't put any weight on it. Support the frame so everything hangs freely in a relaxed state. That way nothing is binding or tweaked and your springs should be inline with the frame rails. If not, I would then look at your shackle hangers. If they are factory they are notorious for twisting or cracking across the area of the hole for the frame rivet.
As for the shims, which OME part# are the springs? I used the heavy rears (CS036) on my fronts too so maybe the shims only come on them for the rear. Are you using the OME bushings too?

Maybe we're going down the wrong path for the steering issue and the two aren't related. Can you better describe the odd handling your experiencing and maybe someone has experienced a different cause. Is this an issue that just happened after the spring change or did it exist before that?

 

[Old Dog]

No don't put any weight on it. Support the frame so everything hangs freely in a relaxed state. That way nothing is binding or tweaked and your springs should be inline with the frame rails. If not, I would then look at your shackle hangers. If they are factory they are notorious for twisting or cracking across the area of the hole for the frame rivet.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Mine was the springs are just so dang soft and flexi that I needed the sway bar. It helped tremendously.

Again, don't know if you're having all over the place leaning / swaying handling problems, or if its more of a wander.

The sway bar did it for me though...

 

[billyballer]

This problem is new since the spring/axle swap. Before that the jeep tracked great, although the old lift springs rode super rough, even by jeep standards.

I drove a little on the freeway today and even though it was windy, things felt a little better after dialing in more toe. But it still feels off. I would describe it as wallowy or teetery almost. If you have ever seen an 70s era Olds driving down the road it has that sorta bounce where it appears to almost shake around all four corners like a hula-hoop. It sorta feels like that (not all the time but in certain higher speed corners, and nope I'm not speeding), and when it hits bumps it is jumpy. Again this wasn't the case before the swap. It also pulls to the right (even when on the other side of the road accounting for the crown), but I'm not terribly concerned about this.

The springs I have are the Heavy Duty Front springs, which I believe are a softer spring rate then the HD rears (one less leaf in the pack as well).
I am running OME bushings as well, and I'm using aftermarket spring hangers with gussets. Also I am running a sway bar up front although I haven't checked the bushings to see what kind of shape they are in.

When I get a chance I'll try setting up the springs again, and tightening them as mentioned above. I will check for markings on the OME springs and check for the taper on the bottom spring. Since my front shocks are old I decided to get some Bilstein 5100's to see if that improves it. I'm thinking I may add-a-leaf too if I don't see any improvement.

 

[mtnwhlr]

A Add-A-Leaf will give you 2" more lift and make it even more stiff than it is now. I think this is a bad idea. You need to sort out what you have now not add to it.

 

[billyballer]

I don't mean any old add a leaf, I mean the one OME specifically designed to work with this spring pack. And I'm not planning on going that route until I eliminate all other possible sources. But as is the ride is super soft and I could see firming it up a tad to help out in the road manners department.

 

[PaRenegade]

Yeah that's odd. What about you ball joints and tie rod ends, could any of those be worn? Lug nuts tight?
And check the number painted on the springs to be sure what you have. I see these retail outlets claiming conflicting descriptions. According to ARB/OME they only make a light and heavy rear (CS037R and CS036R) and a light front (CS014F). But I see light, medium and heavys claimed for both on some sites. Some descriptions are almost as misleading as the pictures for some things.
The extra leafs are a D23XL for the front and D24XL for the rears.

What Bilsteins part #'s did you go with? Just curious. I got ones (5100's) for a 3"-4" lift and I'll have between a 3 1/2"-4" lift and they seem to be about 1/2"-1" shy of being fully extended while just setting there, minus the body and interior.

 

[billyballer]

Yeah that's odd. What about you ball joints and tie rod ends, could any of those be worn? Lug nuts tight?
And check the number painted on the springs to be sure what you have. I see these retail outlets claiming conflicting descriptions. According to ARB/OME they only make a light and heavy rear (CS037R and CS036R) and a light front (CS014F). But I see light, medium and heavys claimed for both on some sites. Some descriptions are almost as misleading as the pictures for some things.
The extra leafs are a D23XL for the front and D24XL for the rears.

What Bilsteins part #'s did you go with? Just curious. I got ones (5100's) for a 3"-4" lift and I'll have between a 3 1/2"-4" lift and they seem to be about 1/2"-1" shy of being fully extended while just setting there, minus the body and interior.

Lug nuts are tight.
I thought about ball joints, and tie rod ends. When I had everything apart I checked them and they all seem good. The only issue I had was installing the ball joints the bottom one wanted to spin so I got an impact on it to get it most of the way tight, but used a torque wrench for the final setting. The preload nut and top nut I was able to do just fine. Tie rod ends felt good. The tie rod itself is the factory style which is a little flimsy, but again, never had this problem with the other springs so don't see why that would make a difference now.

If push comes to shove I'll tear it back down and recheck the ball joints etc.

I'll double check on the spring part numbers. Don't recall off the top of my head.

The Bilsteins I ordered were 33185606, also for the 3-4" lift. I think with shackles I'll be around 3" of lift. I just ordered fronts, as my rear shocks seem good, but if I like them I may spring for a pair for the back as well.
My '86 CJ7 has the lower shock mounts mounted high on the axle tube, not sure if that is the same as your setup. Sounds like I have a little less lift than you, but still that doesn't sounds like a lot of downward travel. I'll let you know, they should be here by Saturday or Monday.

 

[PaRenegade]

Yep, those are the ones I got. Bilstein 33-186542 (CJ7 rear)
Bilstein 33-185606 14.06 (CJ7 front). The rear are supposed to have a Collapsed Length (IN): 15.12
Extended Length (IN): 24.31
and the fronts a
Collapsed Length (IN): 14.13
Extended Length (IN): 22.58
I have to get home and check my measurement notes but sitting idle it was nearly extended.

 

[billyballer]

Just installed the front Bilsteins today. Looks like I have a roughly 4.5" of upward travel at the shock, and maybe 4" of droop from where it sits right now. So judging by the specs I think it's just about right for my 3" of lift. Haven't road tested it yet but they have a lot more compression damping than the old RS 5000 I took off. Rebound damping felt roughly the same. Fingers crossed. May have to order the rear pair as well.

 

[billyballer]

Just wanted to report back. The new front shocks have really improved the wallowy feeling I was having. I added some urethane sway bar bushings and things got even better. I'm still having some twitchiness over bumps that make the jeep want to surge to the right mostly. Think bump steer. In my head it makes sense that with the new softer springs I'm just seeing a lot more suspension movement when I hit bumps so the bump steer effect is more dramatic. Its definitely liveable now though. Still have to redo bolting up the springs as well to see how that works out. I did check for a + on my springs and didn't see one painted on. And part numbers jive with what I bought, but after some research these spring packs are definitely on the softer side for OME, as they only have 4 leafs. When the extra-leafs are back in stock I'm going to look into getting those as well.
I"ll keep reporting back as I make tweaks, but I appreciate all of the feedback and input.

 

[Torxhead]

Sounds like bad tie rod ends, I usually check them with some large channel locks and see if they can move by squeezing them up and down. There should be no movement vertically.