Got the 4.3l, now where to go

[gliryan]

Yeah, this has probably been beaten to death. But I am beating myself to death thinking about it and searching for stuff so I'm looking for that next bit of info to maybe sway myself one way or the other. I'll lay out the situation, its long sorry.

I'm stripping a 93 Blazer with a 4.3l vortec, auto, np231. The motor is going into my wheeling rig, currently has 33's but am not opposed to going up to 35's or 37's if the deal comes up in the future. Planning on spring over leafs. With the new motor I must get new axles. I have a for 8.8 rear end with an lsd in already at my house, I planned on using this. Bolt pattern is 5x4.5. My issue is where to go with the front axle and Transmission /tcase. I started all this because I needed a lower crawling ratio, currently around 38:1. Looking to get as low as possible, within reason.

I have a line on a bellhousing, cj T-18 with a Dana 20 twin sticked for about $450. This will leave me needing a front axle with a passenger drop. Choices are the chev Dana 44 and cut it down, ending up about 4" wider than the rear and not needing to outboard the leafs.. Then I'll need to change it 5x5.5 and get adapters for the rear to make that match. Or I know of a Scout2 Dana 44 front. Will need to outboard and deal with the caster… This relatively simple? I'm not super comfy cutting up an axle that much. Any other decent axle setups I can run with a Dana 20 ? I suppose a late cj Dana 30 …

Or I could pick up an sm420 or sm465 for $50. Buy a $550 adapter and shaft to mate it to any tcase, I'd probably go drivers drop at this point to make a little more room for my steering shaft. Then I could get an xj or yj Dana 30 and have a really good match for my rear end.

There are other possibilities and things to discuss, but thats really what I'm chomping down right now. Just looking for insight and to talk this out a little more. Thanks guys

 

[Incommando]

It sounds like you are after a modified rig for primarily trail use versus a restored or eve restified ( a combo of restoration with mild modification ) jeep. If so:

1. Wouldn't it be easier to sell your 8.8 and find a set of Waggy Dana 44 's in whatever front drop you need and go with them? They would already have a matching bolt pattern and be a decent matching width. A set of '80 and newer waggy axle's would get you a driver's drop Dana 44 front with a good rear end. The FSJ version of the AMC rear axle ( I gotta throw in that it is the M23 but uses the same diff internals as the M20) used from '80-'85 is equal to an 8.8/Dana 44 if you spend 15 minutes welding the tubes to the diff housing. An '86-newer Waggy would have a centered diff rear Dana 44 . A truss helps all of the light duty 1/2 ton axles like an 8.8, M20, & Dana 44 . Then run the complete Blazer motor/tranny/Transfer Case /ecm & wiring to get the quickest/easiest swap. Cobbling together wiring and other adaptions of that type can be a headache and cost you far more time and money than anticipated.To me this is the most friendly option from both a time and a money aspect and it gets you a competently equipped 'wheeler. You could probably find a slightly stronger 241 Transfer Case to slap onto the back of the GM auto without much fuss.

2. You could use the 8.8 if it is the newer Explorer version with 31-spline axles & disc brakes. Find a YJ or an XJ front HPD30..particularly if using a '96 and up XJ with 297 axle u-joints. The XJ will require more mods to work so a YJ unit with swapped in axles is best. Either would have the same bolt pattern as the 8.8 and are stronger front assemblies then a CJ Dana 30 . ( Caution: Although stronger than your current set-up not many folks are going to recommend 35's or 37's for this.) Run the entire Blazer drive train & wiring to make the the swap much easier. Sure the aluminum cased chain driven 231 is not a very strong piece but if you keep the power low enough like from the 4.3 and keep the tire size reasonable like 33's it will work OK. Breakage of front end parts can still be a concern, though. This may be cheaper than option one but it would probably be close.

3.So... Why do things twice? If you are going to replace all of these drivetrain components anyway do it once and not run into the constant upgrading for years until you get to this point at the end. That is the path that so many fall into following and it winds up costing way more time and money even if it is spread out over years. With the money you would have spent on cutting down axles & housings and buying adapters for width/bolt pattern matching you could use the CJ stuff you have a line on, buy a front pass drop D60 front and a rear D60, D70 or 14bolt, and be way way stronger than your other options & ready to run 37's or larger. Selling the Blazer & Ford stuff would also recover some of the axle costs. This would probably be more expensive than options 1 or 2 but in the end probably cheaper than...

4. Hodgepodgeing it:
Unless that CJ bellhousing you have a line on is some aftermarket unit you will still have to adapt it to run on that Chevy engine. Finding an SM420 or 465 with the correct GM bell-housing would probably be easier. Those combos are pretty cheap around here but to my knowledge there are not a lot of driver's drop t-cases to bolt to those trannies. This means another $$$ adapter to get a decent Transfer Case . That is ok because if you upgrade to a bullet-proof tranny you probably don't want a weenie Transfer Case and axles. If you hit it hard your listed LP Dana 44 options that you have to modify to use are not very reliable if you go to 37's ( or even 35's...depends on your end usage) unless you spend more $$$ to strengthen them. If you are intent on cutting down housings and buying axles, you can order the flanges with just about any bolt pattern you want. You can also have your current flanges welded up and new patterns drilled. Using the cut/adapt approach to make many different components work together is usually the most time consuming and expensive approach to do right and it often has the most shake-down headaches in getting everything to run right. Using the ECM to run the motor but not the tranny/etc... can be dicey. If you go back old tech with a carb & dist. to ditch the ECM you have to buy those parts and lose the FI advantage, too. I just don't see any advantage to doing the build this way but there may be something I am missing that makes it a better choice.

 

[gliryan]

Thanks for all the info and ideas! I'm not at all concerned with keeping this vehicle stock. I just finished building a exo cage, so its a wheeler that I want to be road capable. In its current state it is NOT road worthy. The caster on the front is beyond terrible.

The bellhousing with the T-18 is an old Iron Duke bellhousing. It bolts up to the gm motor but has cj tcase pattern on the back. This looks like my best starting point as someone I know offered some sort of trade for my offset rear Dana 44 in trade for his scout 2 Dana 44 front. This would seemingly be the cheapest way, but still a good setup. This T-18 has the granny first gear.

I thought all the waggy Dana 44 fronts were drivers side drop? I'll have to look into that a little as that setup might work out really well if I go with that T-18 /Dana 20 .

I like the idea of going with the xj fronts to get the matching bolt pattern for my 8.8. But hate that there are no twin stickable drivers drop tcase options, unless you flip the Dana 300 .

I just don't think a one ton setup is right for me at this point. I don't wheel that much, and I'm not going to be stepping up tire size in the foreseeable future. Cool YES! Reasonable for me right now, not so much.

In my looking around, I haven't called Novak or anyone yet, but are any of the sm420 or sm465 4 speeds married to a tcase? Or are they all divorced? I have to think about total driveline length, which is why I can' really go with an auto. I need to keep some length in my driveshafts, they are already super short being an early cj.

Any option I choose is filled with work to make it work well, Scout 2 Dana 44 front caster adjustment and perch outboarding, or is chock full of wallet emptying adapters. I know I can't get my cake for free and eat it too. We'll see how my axle swap possibility goes. I'm also waiting to hear a width on a passenger drop Dana 44 front that is said to be out of a cherokee or ford… Not sure what ford? Probably isn't. Not sure what cherokee for that matter though.

 

[Incommando]

All '79-older waggy's were passenger drop on the front Dana 44 . But you can't go much earlier than '74 or so because other components of the front are weaker.

The front Chero axle you mentioned must be from a FSJ if it is a Dana 44 . There were two versions of the FSJ Cherokee: The narrow track like a waggy and the wide track like the J-trucks. FSJ N/T = 59" while the FSJ W/T = 63". These measurements change some with year changes and differences like drum or disc brakes but those numbers are pretty close. All of the W/T Cherokees were 2dr and had factory fender flares. N/T Cherokees could be 2 or 4dr and had no fender flares:

W/T Cherokee

N/T 2dr Cherokee

N/T 4dr Cherokee
http://www.bjsoffroad.com/images/large/matthewjohnson79cherokee.jpg

Most full-sized Ford axles were 67" to 69" wide. So they are wider than even the wide-track FSJ. The '77-older Bronco was more narrow but those axles are getting pricey. Only the '76-'77 versions were good due to the '70 and older using Dana 30 fronts and the other years using small Dana 30 -sized u-joints and small bearings along with low spline counts. The '76-'77's are especially pricey.

DO NOT BUY a '78/'79 Ford HP Dana 44 from an F150 or Bronco. They have goofy cast radius arm perches and the axle tubes do not extend through them: you cannot cut the perches off without re-tubing the axle housing. People get taken on these all of the time because the earlier versions had the perches welded on and they can be cut off to facilitate swapping them into other vehicles. The F250 HP Dana 44 used leaf springs and is the best option but is 8-lug. I don't know of a pass. drop Ford front axle as at least the '70-newer were all driver's drop and anything older is not worth the trouble.

Both the SM420 and the SM465 used married T-cases in more applications than not. You can get 4wd version of each that attaches the Transfer Case directly to the tranny or with a small factory adapter.

 

[gliryan]

Again, thanks for the information! Sounds like that trade for the scout Dana 44 for my Dana 44 is going to happen. So that will pretty much make up my mind and I'll go with the T-18 /Dana 20 . I'm going to keep my eyes open for some possible other options though. I hate doing things twice, but I have another cj anyways that I can use parts for

 

[gliryan]

So I got that scout2 Dana 44 front in trade of my rear Dana 44 . The spiders are welded together and to the carrier unfortunately, but the gears are 4.10's. I also picked up the t18a and Dana 20 earlier this week. Pretty happy about it, not so happy how much it was but none of the options were free.

I'm hoping to get a trac loc for the Dana 44 and get the gears in the 8.8 and Dana 44 matching. I'd like 4.56's. Still looking for something used and available...