Grinding noise while starting

[ttuseth]

So I finally have my jeep back together after over 2 months of work fixing a driveline problem.
I put in a new luk clutch and flywheel (along with a bunch of other new parts). I have fixed the problem I had that caused the teardown but now have a new issue.
There is a terrible grinding noise while starting / turning over. Once running there is no problem.
I know I know its obviously a starter problem. Well it happened with my original starter and I bought a new starter and it's still doing it.
I know I know shim the starter, well the starter bolts into the bellhousing so there is no way to rotate it closer or further from the flywheel it can only be spaced by washers to change the amount of engagement. Which I have done also with no change or fix to the problem.

I'm going to try painting the teeth on a starter and checking the pattern / engagement of the gears but if I do find that the flywheel is slightly larger or smaller what do I do to fix it?

I had to tear out the drivetrain twice in the past 2 months and don't want to do it again.

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[mriplaybass]

Does it grind every time you start it? or is it an intermittent thing. Could be that you have a worn spot on the ring gear. Unfortunately, you have to remove the bell housing to change the ring gear. How do the starter drive teeth look? If they are worn or chipped, you may need a new drive gear (bendix drive) or a new starter. Take the starter out and make sure that the drive assembly moves freely back and forth on the shaft. If it doesn't, lubricate it with some WD40, or silicone spray.

 

[TnCJ]

If you still have the old starter count the number of teeth on the starter drive to see if it has the same as the new one.
Years ago I purchased a replacement starter for my old tractor, it looked the same as my old one but it made a gawdawful noise when I tried to start it. After checking it out I discovered the starter drive had more teeth than the original. Luckily the starter drive teeth were not as hard as the teeth on the ring gear.

 

[mtnwhlr]

You said you replaced the flywheel did it have the ring gear on it?

 

[ttuseth]

Does it grind every time you start it? or is it an intermittent thing. Could be that you have a worn spot on the ring gear. Unfortunately, you have to remove the bell housing to change the ring gear. How do the starter drive teeth look? If they are worn or chipped, you may need a new drive gear (bendix drive) or a new starter. Take the starter out and make sure that the drive assembly moves freely back and forth on the shaft. If it doesn't, lubricate it with some WD40, or silicone spray.

It only does it on start up when cranking the starter. Once it,fires,its smooth as van be.
No worn spots on the new ring gear.


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[ttuseth]

If you still have the old starter count the number of teeth on the starter drive to see if it has the same as the new one.

Years ago I purchased a replacement starter for my old tractor, it looked the same as my old one but it made a gawdawful noise when I tried to start it. After checking it out I discovered the starter drive had more teeth than the original. Luckily the starter drive teeth were not as hard as the teeth on the ring gear.

I will check this and it has me thinking its a gear mesh issue.... However it shows the problem both with my original starter and my new one.

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[mriplaybass]

It only does it on start up when cranking the starter. Once it,fires,its smooth as van be.
No worn spots on the new ring gear.


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You say "new ring gear"? If you replaced the flywheel ring gear, are you sure that you fully seated it against the flywheel. If you did not drive it on all the way, or if it is not on straight, the starter will not engage properly. Take a look and see if there is one spot in particular on the ring gear that shows signs of wear more than other places.

 

[ttuseth]

You say "new ring gear"? If you replaced the flywheel ring gear, are you sure that you fully seated it against the flywheel. If you did not drive it on all the way, or if it is not on straight, the starter will not engage properly. Take a look and see if there is one spot in particular on the ring gear that shows signs of wear more than other places.

I didn't install a new ring gear I installed a new flywheel which has on it a new ring gear......

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[Lumpy Grits]

Pull the starter out and check for ring gear damage.
Me thinks the gear pitch/count is not the same as the OEM, F'wheel.
LG

 

[mriplaybass]

I didn't install a new ring gear I installed a new flywheel which has on it a new ring gear......

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Ah! OK, that's one thing that you don't have to worry about then.

Pull the starter out and check for ring gear damage.
Me thinks the gear pitch/count is not the same as the OEM, F'wheel.
LG

 

[Vikingone]

I had the same problem with my Cj. Here’s what I have learned but I haven’t put my Transmission back in to confirm the repair. When you reinstalled the Transmission did you make sure the alignment dowel pins were in place. (Or even there in the first place). There should be one at 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock. There is a lot of torque on startup and if they are not there the Transmission can actually twist. Secondly where did you get the starter from. And what kind was the original. I’ve heard of this issue being caused by starters from advanced auto or autozone. I can’t remember which one. A starter from NAPA is probably the best. I tried shimming the starter and even though it made it some what better it was still bad enough to eventually wipe out the flywheel.


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[ttuseth]

I had the same problem with my Cj. Here’s what I have learned but I haven’t put my Transmission back in to confirm the repair. When you reinstalled the Transmission did you make sure the alignment dowel pins were in place. (Or even there in the first place). There should be one at 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock. There is a lot of torque on startup and if they are not there the Transmission can actually twist. Secondly where did you get the starter from. And what kind was the original. I’ve heard of this issue being caused by starters from advanced auto or autozone. I can’t remember which one. A starter from NAPA is probably the best. I tried shimming the starter and even though it made it some what better it was still bad enough to eventually wipe out the flywheel.


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Yes the dowel pins were / are in place.

Swapped back over to the original starter with a new cable and washers (spacers). Still giving me the grinding noise on start up.

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[ttuseth]

Pull the starter out and check for ring gear damage.

Me thinks the gear pitch/count is not the same as the OEM, F'wheel.

LG

Absolutely kicking myself for not keeping my old flywheel - once I got the new stuff installed I threw out the old parts.

The new one is a one piece flywheel, so there is no separate ring gear applied to it, its all one piece.

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[Vikingone]

I’ll be following this to see how you got it fixed. I pulled my flywheel out today and noticed the teeth ground down near the block side. As if the starter gear doesn’t come out far enough.


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