H.E.I. questions

[Petescj]

My h.e.i. in my AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l isnt oriented very well for where the Scrambler likes the timing. The vacuum advance module is pretty much up against the cylinder head as shown in the 1st pic. The module itself will just unscrew from what I see. Can I just get another module that "tilts" away from the cylinder head? One with a different mount?

 

[SrBeaver]

to get the vac advance away from the block you're gonna have to pull the distributor and rotate it out, which in turn will change where your plug wires are on the cap. Mine is pointing at about a 45 degree angle from the side of the block with #1 being on the forward side of the electrical connections. I'll take pick tomorrow for ya since it's now sitting on the floor after the V8 swap.

 

[Petescj]

So Im looking at rotating the dizzy about 180 till it seats , checking the rotor to see where #1 is and redoing all my wires again. I was looking for an "easy" way out but figured this would be it.

 

[81laredo]

I was able to simply rotate the distributor one tooth and then set the plug wires accordingly. The part that is keeping you from doing this is the oil pump so you would move the distributor one tooth, then rotate the engine so that the oil pump lines up with the bottom of the shaft. I did this by putting a little pressure down on the cap and energizing the starter solenoid but there should be at least one other way (be sure to have the ignition disconnected).

 

[MN CJ7]

saw this the other day, think I can help a bit,

First, I am not a fan of the HEI distributors use in the AMC eingines......The Jeep CJ Forum seems to recommend them more than the other Jeep/AMC forums.

Second, encourage members to study up on the Stock DuraSpark, TEAMRUSH, and the use of the MSD , multi spark capacitance ignitions.



Good to first ....... have a base line to start with, return with, know what you have.... it will help you solve issues .... or help guys like me doing internet help what the issues are....., anytime I am going to lift the distributor, remove distributor, change distributor, solve ignition problems, verify engine health, cannot time the engine, ck the harmonic balancer.... etc. START With engine at TDC and ck your stuff... Not saying you did not pete, just explaining so we/readers are on the same page.

The AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l engine/ distributor vacuum can should point to the radiator and the rotar should point to the #1 wire when at top dead center. Yours is pointing to the engine a bit too much. Not a biggie unless you cannot get the initial time you want....

I like to start at TDC, compression stroke of #1 cylinder. I remove all the spark plugs, evaluate them for color and write it down per cylinder. Balancer mark should be lined up to 0 on the time mark scale, rotar should be at #1, mark the balancer line time mark with white paint on paper match end or silver sharpe. With plugs out the balancer nut will turn easy with a socket, turn engine operation direction.

I agree your distributor looks off by one tooth. This is, ONE reason, why I like to see pics of the work project because this off teeth, or off 180deg, is common.

One way to fix it after verify TDC...... Watch your rotar movement with correct engine direction rotational movement... When you take the distributor out the rotar will came/rotate with the twist of gear on end. So do this a few times in out and watch the twist......nothing will happen and shows how much off you have to be so distributor is right when seated...

Then take out the distributor, use a long screw driver so the oil pump slot will be just a little past where the slot would be for the correct insertion. Oil pump slot will turn easily. If you feel you can get it right so the distributor slips in great go for it...... If you make it so it would be just a bit of rotation past the correct insertion........ you can then just rotate the engine with distributor inserted and in just a little engine movement it will slip right in...

Since the HEI have so many issues that can make you engine fail........ I suggest you try to drill the gear with a simple drill bit when you lift the distributor out........ IF you get a little divit with not much effort, good its not a hardneded gear. Then with a Std Duraspark Distributor ck to see the LENGTH is correct from the mounting shoulder to the center of the distributor gear.... Many HEIs for AMC are not the right lenght and will cause cam gear wear or bind up the oil pump.... Inspect cam gear for wear or metal shavings..... If you see any of these faults more reading and research will be needed.....

Hope it helps....... sorry to be doom and gloom.... but its the truth..





more hei info here
Jeep Ignition Upgrade Paths, DuraSpark vs Hei Compare by JeepHammer
http://www.junkyardgenius.com/ignition/jeep/HEIcompair.html

 

[Petescj]

Thanx. I'll be going over this probably Monday after work. I still have the stock dizzy so I can check everything against it as well.

 

[BusaDave9]

MN CJ7 is one smart guy. He knows his stuff but I respectfully disagree, HEI on a AMC engine is not doom and gloom.
HEI is head and shoulders better than the OEM ignition but as he stated you want to double-check the gear meshing. Now is Duraspark and TeamRush better than HEI? Well, that's a debate for another thread. Pete already has HEI.

 

[Cheepjeep85]

I call it personal preference, I've run both and I can't tell the difference between the two. I don't believe anybody should take one mans word on it, do your own research and what's best for you. I will say both ignitions have their merits and downfalls. But team rush and hei are better by a mile than the stock ignition system.

Droooiiddd 2

 

[Petescj]

MN CJ7 is one smart guy. He knows his stuff but I respectfully disagree, HEI on a AMC engine is not doom and gloom.
HEI is head and shoulders better than the OEM ignition but as he stated you want to double-check the gear meshing. Now is Duraspark and TeamRush better than HEI? Well, that's a debate for another thread. Pete already has HEI.

I call it personal preference, I've run both and I can't tell the difference between the two. I don't believe anybody should take one mans word on it, do your own research and what's best for you. I will say both ignitions have their merits and downfalls. But team rush and hei are better by a mile than the stock ignition system.

Droooiiddd 2

I read up a bit on the H.E.I. before I came across the one I have with new wires and plugs for $AMC 150 . At that price I was willing to give it a shot. Now that I have my carb tuned in pretty well I like it. Had I bought a "better" unit I probably wouldnt be pulling it again to fix this 1 tooth off problem. Im not sure but I may be able to get it to run even better without the cylinder head setting my timing. Honestly I havent driven the Scrambler with the H.E.I. and a properly tuned carb as much as Id like. The carb that was on it ran very rich but the overall performance was a definate upgrade.

I also did the Team Rush on the CJ7 as well. The Team Rush came in right around $100 at the time and another $40 for the Pertronix flame thrower coil. The CJ7 was my daily driver for quite awhile and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the Team Rush. Id do it again without hesitation. 1 thing you dont get with the Team Rush is a "new distributor". There can ( and will be ) some "slop" in your 30 some year old Duraspark.

 

[81laredo]

As a side note when I purchased my Howell EFI kit the guy asked if I had an MSD or similar ignition. After I stated no but was thinking about an HEI he stated that was OK they were just concerned over the other type. Now this could only be about California Emissions testing but it did effect the ignition that I chose to use.
I agree that the HEI is a huge improvement over the stock stuff but I have no experience with the Team Rush changes. The HEI is so much simpler and cleans up the wiring with only one wire in and one wire out to the Distributor. *My original Distributor wouldn't work though so I did have to buy a newer replacement.

 

[MN CJ7]

I agree..... The Debate between the stock use, tune up parts, HEI, and what is better will continue. This has been going on on JeepForum for 7 years or so indepth. It take quite a bit of knowledge to understand the igntions fully, both ME and EE and Physics type bacgrounds to understand what JeepHammer has taught. The man is an ignition god and has done consulting work for MSD and others. He forgot more than I will every know.

I have the tech background and have read his findings and posts for years..... I bet I have 500 hrs of reading up on igntions....... and I can tell fact from fictions. I have never seen a flaw in any of his presentations and see some real genious in his findings and solutions..... My education in EE, ME, Physics with 30 years of helping customers make their electrical/electronic products better with OEM parts and production equipment...

These are not my FINDINGS they are TEAMRUSH Racing, the name of his race team, and JeepHammer, his online name....... I just understand them and can help fellow jeeps apply them.

So as it was pointed out above..... MUCH OF THIS IS HEARSAY and OPINION on this debate...

I will tell you one BIG FACT....
JeepHammers efforts on the HEI Junk have saved 1000s of jeepers from blowing up their engines. He also single handledly forced the HEI suppliers into testing and thousand of jeepers in testing/refusing and not using the harnened gears.

Hardened gears is 1/15 of the issue with Cheapee HEIs that are not MSD & DUI manufactured HEI product for the AMC engines..... Until a user fully understands the Cheapee HEI usage and corrections there will be issues with HEI usage in AMC engines...... we are not there yet.... not even close......

Laredo ....
Your HEI had 45-55 degrees of advance.... I guided you to correct it and look for it as well as other issues. The ebay HEI Left like, 45-55 degrees, might have done damage.... I guided you to change it to 30-35 deg of advacne. Left as arrived distributor might have damaged you AMC engine and a engine that may have run for 100k more might only get 30 k or even 5 k more miles..


Advance concpets to consider then
DuraSpark Igntion Modual, Duraspark Distributor
Upgraded Cap/rotar/plug wires tune up parts (Std tune up) & aux grounds, called TEAMRUSH
Use of upgraded MDS multi Spark ignition box, cost now is only $AMC 150 .... one of the best bang for the buck..
HEI..... cheapee stuff on ebay...... LOTS to know to make a good qualtiy application on AMC
HEI quality buy MSD or DUI, est cost $300-400.... good solution... good product.. fully adj... very expensive

Horses have a choice ........ drink or dehydrate


MN CJ





I do this, write about HEI Weakness and HOW TO UPGRADE STOCK DURASPARK not to change everone's mind.....
BUT to keep the jeep community safe.
USE the HEI blindley w/o knowledge and you will destroy your engine.... When MEMBERS post repeadly use the HEI for one wire simple thing, the hardened gear needs to be tested only, and one guy tried to tell me hardened gears are not a issue for both V8 and I6 AMC engines, its just the V8 engines. WILL CAUSE LOTS of issue and confusion.

There are 25 benefits to the stock dist and ignition
There are 25 weak Links of a Cheapee HEI that should be corrected
On a ENGINEERING Evaluation the HEI not EQUAL to Duraspark its a bit less


Untill members understand both Igntiions fully on all 50 points its is a GUESS and Hear Say and their OPIONION. Few on any Jeep type forum are at this level of understanding...


ONE last comment.... if running one wire to the distirbutor is the big selling point... Why have a jeep.... why have a 30-40 year old vehicle

 

[Petescj]

The man is an ignition god and has done consulting work for MSD and others. He forgot more than I will every know.

I have the tech background and have read his findings and posts for years..... I bet I have 500 hrs of reading up on igntions....... and I can tell fact from fictions. I have never seen a flaw in any of his presentations and see some real genious in his findings and solutions..... My education in EE, ME, Physics with 30 years of helping customers make their electrical/electronic products better with OEM parts and production equipment...

I will tell you one BIG FACT....
JeepHammers efforts on the HEI Junk have saved 1000s of jeepers from blowing up their engines. He also single handledly forced the HEI suppliers into testing and thousand of jeepers in testing/refusing and not using the harnened gears.



Advance concpets to consider then
DuraSpark Igntion Modual, Duraspark Distributor
Upgraded Cap/rotar/plug wires tune up parts (Std tune up) & aux grounds, called TEAMRUSH
Use of upgraded MDS multi Spark ignition box, cost now is only $AMC 150 .... one of the best bang for the buck..
HEI..... cheapee stuff on ebay...... LOTS to know to make a good qualtiy application on AMC
HEI quality buy MSD or DUI, est cost $300-400.... good solution... good product.. fully adj... very expensive






There are 25 benefits to the stock dist and ignition
There are 25 weak Links of a Cheapee HEI that should be corrected
On a ENGINEERING Evaluation the HEI not EQUAL to Duraspark its a bit less


Untill members understand both Igntiions fully on all 50 points its is a GUESS and Hear Say and their OPIONION. Few on any Jeep type forum are at this level of understanding...


ONE last comment.... if running one wire to the distirbutor is the big selling point... Why have a jeep.... why have a 30-40 year old vehicle

Ok in no way was I trying to start the great debate between the H.E.I. and Team Rush modification. We all know how you feel about JeepHammer but calling him a "God" is a slight reach.

When you bring up the "BIG FACT" , I want 1000s of Jeepers to tell me their engines were saved from blowing up by his info. This is definately hearsay. When you call it a FACT you must be able to back it up. "Single handedly" isnt a term I think you could use either.

Id also like to see your 50 points theory, 25 for the Duraspark and 25 against the h.e.i.

I do not mean to be confrontational in any way by what Ive posted. I would just like you to post up more info so I too can learn from it.

On a side note never use the word genius unless its spelled correctly. :laugh:

 

[BedneckKustumz]

roflmao @ Petescj

 

[MN CJ7]

Ok in no way was I trying to start the great debate between the H.E.I. and Team Rush modification. We all know how you feel about JeepHammer but calling him a "God" is a slight reach.

When you bring up the "BIG FACT" , I want 1000s of Jeepers to tell me their engines were saved from blowing up by his info. This is definately hearsay. When you call it a FACT you must be able to back it up. "Single handedly" isnt a term I think you could use either.

Id also like to see your 50 points theory, 25 for the Duraspark and 25 against the h.e.i.

I do not mean to be confrontational in any way by what Ive posted. I would just like you to post up more info so I too can learn from it.

On a side note never use the word genius unless its spelled correctly. :laugh:

Not funny at all......

If you want to understand a subject you need to read about it....

Too bad when you post some info to help and seems like it not appreciated.....

When the most intellegent info offered for the HEI is it has more voltage, it hooks up with one wire, it made the engine more simple. Or just ck the gear and replace with the stock gear...

I have offered several links, in several several threads, and lots to search and look up. The HEI flaws and benefits of DuraSpark & TeamRush is all over the web. When I first came here JH put 3-4 posts and the info is very minimal Jeep CJ Forum.... You can start there, then look at his other posts , his threads and you can learn lots...

Evaluation of electrical requires the use of Ohms law, magnetic flux theory, control high voltage, how an high voltage develope quickly, step up & down transformers evaluations, what is electrical noise and how is it controlled, ...... just some / not all of basics needed to evaluate. I have this background so I understood what he presented......... and I saw zero flaws..

Now if you want to pooooo hoo on what I say or not bother to look at the links...... thats is a choice....

Just like you can lead a horse to water but YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM DRINK..... Often if a animal is skick they they will not eat or drink so they dehydrated pretty quick...

The water has been presented you can drink or not, your choice.
Have an iteligent question, be happy to help, not going to hand feed you


Spelling????? ye not the best speller, taught to read by sight, and I have a technical mind, done some pretty cool stuff. That is what you want to pick on, funny 1-2 have done it on every forum.... Not to mention lots of the mistakes are from touch typing...

MN CJ7

 

[MN CJ7]

I will ALSO say the CHEAPEE HEIs are such a issue....... I would never buy a CJ with a CHEAPEE HEI cause its not worth the risk.



Second I do have 100 jeeper quotes of Cheapee HEIs that took out the AMC engine a complete failure... The links were shared a few dozen times on JeepForum so they should pretty easy to find..

 

[Petescj]

I will ALSO say the CHEAPEE HEIs are such a issue....... I would never buy a CJ with a CHEAPEE HEI cause its not worth the risk.



Second I do have 100 jeeper quotes of Cheapee HEIs that took out the AMC engine a complete failure... The links were shared a few dozen times on JeepForum so they should pretty easy to find..

Im usually a pretty care free mellow type of guy. When I put that little smiley in my post and picked on you about your spelling of the word genius it was a joke , nothing more. If it offended you ( politically correctness ) sorry.

While I have used JeepForum myself at times this isnt JeepForum. Thats why I enjoy Jeep-cj.com. Its about Cjs. Its not a conglomerate of all Jeep brands.

I think we can all say that your info is appreciated and for the most part well received. Everyone is allowed there opinion though.

And I asked for the 1000s of Cj owners that were saved not 100s. And I want proof of Jeep Hammer / Junkyard Genius/ TeamRush/Rush Motorsports or whatever his screen name is these days has actually been a consultant for various manufacturers like you say. Anybody can type that kinda stuff.

Facts

Show me.

 

[elwood blues]

Okay, that's enough out of both of you.

MN CJ7, you've been warned before about being confrontational...

petescj, you should know better

This thread is locked until further notice.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Pete like we were discussing, let me know any snags with the pull and rotate idea so i can use you as my ginny-pig :laugh:

Ive got the same problem with my AMC 304 v8 and DUI distributor against the power steering pump for everyone else who didnt see our PMs.

 

[Niedhogg]

Pete like we were discussing, let me know any snags with the pull and rotate idea so i can use you as my ginny-pig :laugh:

Ive got the same problem with my AMC 304 v8 and DUI distributor against the power steering pump for everyone else who didnt see our PMs.

I just put mine in last night, I put it in exactly like the other one which I figured was pretty good and factory set. The vacuum module on mine points to the left front corner of the Jeep, like right through the power steering belt. Not much clearance for the cap to the pump and the wires coming from the module rubbed on my fuel line, but I made a quick adjustment to that and now it clears. I had to turn my oil pump a couple times to get the thing to seat all the way, but that was a piece of cake. I could put a pic up tomorrow night?