Lift Opinions

[mriplaybass]

We have decided that it is time to think about a new suspension. Last year on the Colorado ride, our son and his fiance rode with us for a day. First time we had passengers while off roading. We bottomed out to the bump stops constantly. So now it's time to start planning how to go about remedying the problem.
I am not sure what springs are currently in the Jeep, but I think they are a 2 or 2 1/2" lift. From what I could find, it looks like stock springs measure 5 3/4" from a line pulled between the spring eye centers, and the bottom of the spring arc, and 44 1/8" eye center to eye center along the entire arc. Completely unloaded, I measured 7" and with the full weight of the Jeep, 4". I'm guessing we have a worn out 2 1/2" lift.
Here's the plan. Within the next year or two, we want to go to 35" tires and chromoly axles. I have talked to a number of people, and am kind of zeroing in on either a BDS or an EMU YJ conversion 2 1/2" to 4" spring under, or maybe a YJ stock spring SOA. I know the SOA will cause more pinion, castor, and driveshaft problems, so SUA is probably more practical. At the same time, I am trying to increase articulation, but not feel like I'm riding a buckboard.
Most of the leaf spring articulation increase devices seem questionable as to on road handling. TeraFlex rotator shackles, Alcan orbit-eyes, etc. but, give me your opinions.
Shackles? Longer, Boomerang, etc.?
It's too cold to drive it anywhere, so we might as well throw parts at it!

 

[caveman]

"Opinion" I believe the 4" YJ conversion won't give you as much lift as a 4" CJ lift but will give you much better articulation and softer ride. If the YJ lift isn't enough for 35" tires you can install a small body lift and/or longer shackles. No more than a 1" body lift. I thought long and hard about the revolver shackles when I built my rig and opted out as I felt they may be unstable at highway speeds. The idea is good but I didn't want to be the first to prove they weren't safe for the road. Probably great for an offroad only rig.

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[Posi]

You already know my thoughts on a lift for your CJ.
I agree with cavemen on the revolver shackles for the reasons he gave.

 

[JeeperChris]

I know I'm new to the Jeep world but I've been into mechanics since I was a teen so I have a solid understanding of many things here.

My opinion.... I've been looking at this SOA lift kit from Rocky-Road.com and from all the reading I've done it looks like the most solid kit out there. It's a bolt-on kit and of course can be welded at any point which is a plus. It sounds like this kit (about 6 inches) would meet your needs. They also have what they call an OTT kit which puts your drag link and tie rod over the top of the springs and brings the geometry back to a good level. Might be worth checking out, and if nothing else it might give you some more ideas for your project.
https://www.rocky-road.com/cj-spring-over-axle.html

 

[jp360cj]

OP, what kind of shape is your tub in? It's hard to run 35s on a CJ with much flex without cutting the fenders. I'm SOA on 35s with trimmed fenders and still rub sometimes.

If you want 35s and SUA, I would look at the RE 4.5" lift and plan on a 1" BL and trimming fenders. If you go SOA, I would do YJ springs (I wish I would have, I only did YJ rears). Even with my CJ front springs (my rears are YJ), the ride and flex are both leaps and bounds better than any spring lifted CJ I've been in.

As for the Rocky Road kit, I wouldn't touch it. It seems very overpriced for what it is and despite what they say, it isn't a complete kit. I also don't like the idea of the bolt on perch. The Z bar and tcase drop are band-aids. No anti wrap bar included. From what I've read, you may be able to get by without the anti wrap bar with CJ springs, but wit you'll need it.

To get to the point of the RRO kit, but better...spring perches are $50, brake lines under a $100, ford shock towers $50, parking brake cable $20. Their high steer kit doesn't look too bad. It looks like it adds a bracket between the top ball joint and TRE hole and looks to be supported fairly well. Probably not a bad option. The next step up IMO would be a Dana 44 outer swap and full DOM highsteer, but that's going to be a good chunk of change.

 

[JeeperChris]

The Rocky Road kit wraps around the current spring pads. I don't see where an anti-wrap bar would be needed.

https://www.rocky-road.com/media/cj_soa_rear.JPG

 

[jp360cj]

The Rocky Road kit wraps around the current spring pads. I don't see where an anti-wrap bar would be needed.

https://www.rocky-road.com/media/cj_soa_rear.JPG

That's not doing anything to prevent axle wrap, which is caused by twisting of the leaf spring

 

[JeeperChris]

Ah so it's the leafs that flex too much, got it.

 

[caveman]

Axle wrap is a big problem with most all Jeeps. I've witnessed a CJ with a lift that was as stiff as a buckboard and not spring over wrap up enough to snap U joints when in a hard place. YJ springs with a spring over would be even worse without some sort of anti wrap.

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[mriplaybass]

"Opinion" I believe the 4" YJ conversion won't give you as much lift as a 4" CJ lift but will give you much better articulation and softer ride. If the YJ lift isn't enough for 35" tires you can install a small body lift and/or longer shackles. No more than a 1" body lift. I thought long and hard about the revolver shackles when I built my rig and opted out as I felt they may be unstable at highway speeds. The idea is good but I didn't want to be the first to prove they weren't safe for the road. Probably great for an offroad only rig.

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You already know my thoughts on a lift for your CJ.
I agree with cavemen on the revolver shackles for the reasons he gave.

Thanks Caveman, If you remember, I probably have plenty of wheel well clearance since the rear is pretty much cut almost to the inner wheel houses, and the front fenders are almost non-existant. I worry about highway performance of revolver shocks too.


Posi, I know that we talked awhile ago about this, but you know us seniors, the memory of a goldfish! I'll probably give you a call sometime this weekend to chew things over again.

 

[mriplaybass]

I know I'm new to the Jeep world but I've been into mechanics since I was a teen so I have a solid understanding of many things here.

My opinion.... I've been looking at this SOA lift kit from Rocky-Road.com and from all the reading I've done it looks like the most solid kit out there. It's a bolt-on kit and of course can be welded at any point which is a plus. It sounds like this kit (about 6 inches) would meet your needs. They also have what they call an OTT kit which puts your drag link and tie rod over the top of the springs and brings the geometry back to a good level. Might be worth checking out, and if nothing else it might give you some more ideas for your project.
https://www.rocky-road.com/cj-spring-over-axle.html

Thanks Jeeper, I have looked at this item. Like I said, the problems that I see with an SOA setup is all the problems most shade tree mechanics don't think of. Pinion angles, castor angle, driveshaft length, etc.

 

[j6824]

OP, what kind of shape is your tub in? It's hard to run 35s on a CJ with much flex without cutting the fenders. I'm SOA on 35s with trimmed fenders and still rub sometimes.

If you want 35s and SUA, I would look at the RE 4.5" lift and plan on a 1" BL and trimming fenders. If you go SOA, I would do YJ springs (I wish I would have, I only did YJ rears). Even with my CJ front springs (my rears are YJ), the ride and flex are both leaps and bounds better than any spring lifted CJ I've been in.

As for the Rocky Road kit, I wouldn't touch it. It seems very overpriced for what it is and despite what they say, it isn't a complete kit. I also don't like the idea of the bolt on perch. The Z bar and tcase drop are band-aids. No anti wrap bar included. From what I've read, you may be able to get by without the anti wrap bar with CJ springs, but wit you'll need it.

To get to the point of the RRO kit, but better...spring perches are $50, brake lines under a $100, ford shock towers $50, parking brake cable $20. Their high steer kit doesn't look too bad. It looks like it adds a bracket between the top ball joint and TRE hole and looks to be supported fairly well. Probably not a bad option. The next step up IMO would be a Dana 44 outer swap and full DOM highsteer, but that's going to be a good chunk of change.

I'd listen to JP360. Read what he said, then read it again.

I was in your shoes not too long ago and came across the rocky road site and thought it was the answer...reasonably priced and seemed to be too good to be true. Then I did some more digging. Their following is not all that terrific and their offerings are often considered gimmicky (particularly that silly s-shaped drag link) by those in the know.

When I decided to start shopping about two years ago, based on the investigating I did, the two recommended kits were Rubicon Express and BDS, (and OME, which I ruled out because of the YJ springs and the necessary perch relocation...which, in hindsight, was shortsighted on my part) and they seemed about neck and neck in terms of features, reviews and price. I ended up going with the 4" BDS sua kit. Night and day difference from what I inherited on mine from the PO (an almost 6"shackle lift on who knows what kind of dead springs).

It just so happens I redid the steering at the same time, as it was as bad or worse than the suspension, so it'd be hard for me to articulate exactly how much of the improvement was individually attributed to suspension vs steering.

That said, it's stiff, but predictable. Solid. No more bump steer or wander. No more white knuckles and clenched teeth. Not as much flex as softer springs. Love the military wrap, not to mention their no-questions-asked warranty. Would both purchase again myself as well as recommend to others.

I've just recently given some thought to trying a spring over up front and leaving the rear alone. From what I've come across in terms of researching, it seems it may be one of the best compromises to be had in terms of ride and flex while avoiding the pitfalls of wrap with the rear.

 

[mriplaybass]

OP, what kind of shape is your tub in? It's hard to run 35s on a CJ with much flex without cutting the fenders. I'm SOA on 35s with trimmed fenders and still rub sometimes.

If you want 35s and SUA, I would look at the RE 4.5" lift and plan on a 1" BL and trimming fenders. If you go SOA, I would do YJ springs (I wish I would have, I only did YJ rears). Even with my CJ front springs (my rears are YJ), the ride and flex are both leaps and bounds better than any spring lifted CJ I've been in.

As for the Rocky Road kit, I wouldn't touch it. It seems very overpriced for what it is and despite what they say, it isn't a complete kit. I also don't like the idea of the bolt on perch. The Z bar and tcase drop are band-aids. No anti wrap bar included. From what I've read, you may be able to get by without the anti wrap bar with CJ springs, but wit you'll need it.

To get to the point of the RRO kit, but better...spring perches are $50, brake lines under a $100, ford shock towers $50, parking brake cable $20. Their high steer kit doesn't look too bad. It looks like it adds a bracket between the top ball joint and TRE hole and looks to be supported fairly well. Probably not a bad option. The next step up IMO would be a Dana 44 outer swap and full DOM highsteer, but that's going to be a good chunk of change.

I think I'm in pretty good shape for 35" tires. Plenty of metal has been removed, and I built my own shock towers to accomodate longer shocks. I looked at the Alcan suspension with their "Orbit-eyes" shackles, but they came back with a price in the $2000 range for just the springs, shackle eyes, and hardware. I'm not trying to do this on the total cheap, but I do have to watch the budget!

 

[jay59l]

I have a '86 SOA on OME Yj springs and revolvers, 1.25" body lift, TJ flare cut running 37's. Pic attached for reference.

The previous owner did the suspension and I had to clean up the shortcomings. The springs are almost flat since OMEs are fairly soft. The steering make shift high knuckle he put on was sketchy at best. The revolvers are fine on the highway and around town.

I went with reid racing knuckles when I did the front axle upgrade. Much stronger now! The revolvers has never given me any troubles but I am swapping them out for some standard length boomerangs in the spring (they will be for sale if anyone wants to give them a try)

SOA is a lot more work than it looks like others have mentioned. I like it and rides well but be prepared to address lots of other issues. Don't even consider anything from Rocky Road. They are local to me and have horrid customer service. Have you ever meet anyone using their products? I haven't.

Also remember when you go with big tires, you have to remember stopping power, gearing, axle strength all come into question.

Id just got 33"-35"s and a quality SUA lift. 35"s are pushing the limits of the stock stuff.

 

[mriplaybass]

I have a '86 SOA on OME Yj springs and revolvers, 1.25" body lift, TJ flare cut running 37's. Pic attached for reference.

The previous owner did the suspension and I had to clean up the shortcomings. The springs are almost flat since OMEs are fairly soft. The steering make shift high knuckle he put on was sketchy at best. The revolvers are fine on the highway and around town.

I went with reid racing knuckles when I did the front axle upgrade. Much stronger now! The revolvers has never given me any troubles but I am swapping them out for some standard length boomerangs in the spring (they will be for sale if anyone wants to give them a try)

SOA is a lot more work than it looks like others have mentioned. I like it and rides well but be prepared to address lots of other issues. Don't even consider anything from Rocky Road. They are local to me and have horrid customer service. Have you ever meet anyone using their products? I haven't.

Also remember when you go with big tires, you have to remember stopping power, gearing, axle strength all come into question.

Id just got 33"-35"s and a quality SUA lift. 35"s are pushing the limits of the stock stuff.

Before we go with 35's chromoly axles would go in. Probably do a rear disc conversion too. Eaton Elockers are in the diffs. Nice to hear from someone who has real world experience with the rotator shackles.
I guess I should have posted our build thread in the beginning so everyone knows where we are with the Jeep.
They're coming to take me away aha!

 

[Torxhead]

Bass, I had 35s w/8" rims on my CJ until they wore out, now I am back to 33s. I have 4" bds springs, 1" body lift, 1" lift shackles, with a bit of fender skirt trimming. Using extended bump stops on all ends really helped. I also replaced the steering stop bolts on the front axle with longer ones also. It was tougher to stop though, I would suggest one of those dual diaphragm power brake boosters for that. They sure were a bear to rotate too.

 

[caveman]

I used a double diaphragm out of a TJ. It made a world of difference.

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[jay59l]

I have a vanco power booster setup and it works well. I wish it was a bit more aggressive. Maybe one day I’ll do a hydro boost upgrade. And yes bigger tires are heavy. I added something like 25-30 lbs per corner going from 35”s on 15 to 37”s on 17”. Each corner now weighs just under 120lbs.

 

[jp360cj]

I think I'm in pretty good shape for 35" tires. Plenty of metal has been removed, and I built my own shock towers to accomodate longer shocks. I looked at the Alcan suspension with their "Orbit-eyes" shackles, but they came back with a price in the $2000 range for just the springs, shackle eyes, and hardware. I'm not trying to do this on the total cheap, but I do have to watch the budget!

Good looking Jeep! I think you'll be pleased with the ride quality and performance of a proper SOA, but it will definitely be more money and work. Maybe you can find a CJ with an RE or BDS lift and see how the ride is.

Here's mine


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[mriplaybass]

Definitely did the dual diaphragm booster when we originally converted from standard to power brakes when we built the Jeep.

Glad we did! Last year crawling down about a 45° decline slick rock trail in Moab, Posi shouted over the radio, "Curt! stop so I can take a picture!" Glad for dual diaphragm boosters! The brakes held like a dream!