lifting my first jeep

[69 cjfun]

I want to lift my 69 CJ5 . should I go 2.5 inches or 4 and if I go 4 do I need modifications to the manual steering, a drop pitman arm, etc.?

 

[Torxhead]

Lifting is usually done to make clearance for larger tires. Big tires and manual steering don't go good together, especially on the trail. Do you have a plan for just what you are going to do with that fine older vehicle? Pictures are a good start.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

X2 on what torx said

doing a suspension lift (springs) will not need adjustments to the steering other then a drop pitman arm since the the whole frame is going up.

You will need longer brake lines

The manual steering, while Ive never owned a jeep with it, would suck with bigger tires.

If your puttingthe lift on to fit bigger tires then you may have tire/spring clearance when turning the front tires

Bigger tires will also effect the way she drives making her a little more sluggish on the road.

Taller springs and bigger tires will make the COG higher and make the jeep a little bit more "tippy" feeling

Taller springs have a arch to em making them a harder ride then stock

I would say gas milage but you own a jeep so throw that out the window.

Now the question of what size lift to use?? We really need to know what size tire you are planning on running. To much lift will also throw off your steerign angle making the jeep to have bump steer and drive like poop.

So to wrap up... You need to make a decission on what you plan on doing with this jeep. Road driver? off roader? Mud runner? or a combo of several.

Worst thing to do is start throwing parts at a Jeep and not have a plan.

 

[harleydragon]

I see so many guys,especially with these newer jeeps lift them 3 or 4 times before getting what they actually want..Before you start throwing money at it,decide what you really want and then just do it one time..It will be much cheaper

 

[thescot]

Listen to everyone's wisdom here. If you own a CJ in my book you must either have a huge bank roll to pay a mechanic to do mods, or be willing yourself to tear it apart from end to end to fix, change, or modify till its finally right. from Personal experience more than once I will tell you a P'comp 4" on a CJ will result in mods necessary to the Drive lines & steering. You will experience the shackles flipping backwards if wheeled, a terrible ride, little articulation, etc,etc. Ask questions, buy quality parts and do it once only. Old man EMU's kits are tops in ride and durability,also a spring over is desirable over a high priced poor quality 4" kit.

 

[69 cjfun]

I should've given a little more info... I'm running 33,s and don't have any plans to go bigger. I trimmed a little rust on the rear fenders and the jeep has wheel spacers so rubbing is minimal as it sits currently. I have considered upgrading to power steering, but have not researched it to see if its possible or practical. My cj sees more road time than anything, but I do off road it when I get the chance. It's not a mud buggy. I've built those and outgrew them. Mud is fun occasionally but it's not where my interests are. I am keeping my cj pretty much stock as far as the drivetrain goes. The 44 rear is plenty strong for the 225 v6 and while it will ultimately end up with a locker I currently see no need to upgrade the axle. A four speed tranny upgrade may be in the future, but The stock 3 spd is in working order and has a brand new clutch in front of it. I've decided to stay with the 225 v6 as well. I just had a set of heads done for it and the rest of the motor is in good shape. I put an hei distributor on it from a 76 regal, to eliminate the points, and have settled on a Rochester 2ge carb for it. I have created an adapter to run a 1406 edelbrock carburetor instead of the small base Rochester but can't see any reason to run a 600 cfm carb on a little v6.
So I guess long story short I want to lift my jeep to get a little better tire clearance and that's about it. I would consider a spring over but know little about what it entails. I guess for now 2.5 inches will give me the lift I need and going to a 10.5 thornbird instead of a 12.50 trxus mt will probably get rid of any rubbing I have as well as allow me to remove the wheel spacers.

I'm open to suggestions about lifting this particular jeep.

 

[ndenny]

I really like my spring over. if you can weld, or know someone who can, its worth it. spend the $AMC 150 (prob cheaper) on new perches, use your old plates and get new shocks and switch to to springs. it'll ride better. only life you around 3" so your 33s will still look good, drive good. and you'll be maybe $300 into it with the parts. I wouldn't cut the old perches off if not absolutely needed. just encase you want to go back. (I don't see why)

 

[harleydragon]

add this up to tell you how much lift a spring over will give you..diameter of axle tube,thickness of old perch,thickness of new perch and thickness of spring pack..it usually adds up to 5 or 6 inches..If you can do all your own fabrication it is a good way to lift one in my opinion.

 

[Old Dog]

For 33' tires I'd stay SUA, there's a lot more to SOA than just welding the perches on top of the axle.
I really don't think you will be happy with Thronbirds.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

I'm gonna get on my soap box about SOA's..

Pro's: Cost for the soa spring perches.. Less then $100. If you can weld your self then it's really cheap.

Cons

#1..it will give you 5-6" of lift which is way more then you need for 33's. Figure 2.5" for the axle tube +1-1.5" for the new spring mounts + 1.5-2" for the spring pack.

#2.. The steering will make contact with the springs since they are now above the axle. This can be addressed by a) just driving it b) tie rod flip cost about $100 for the kit c) some stupid looking S or Z bar linkage which are weak and know to fail or d) convert the front passenger side knuckle to high steer which is going to set you back around $600 but that is he best and most correct way to fix the steering.

#3.. If the steering is left in the stock position you will probably end up with a crazy about of bump steer. Google soa steering problems.

#4.. Axle wrap. With the soa the springs are more susceptible to axle wrap.. Again google it. That can be fixed by installing a anti wrap of ladder bar.. Another $AMC 150 -200 to set one up if you know how to do it.

Please don't get me wrong. It this was a designated mud or trail rig then you would be ok because to don't go fast enough for the steering issues to bother you.. As a daily driver I think you would be very unhappy. If they are done correctly and steering/anti wrap is addressed you are looking between $1000-1500 which is way more then a good sua spring set up.

Fortunately it's your jeep.. You can do what ever you like with it.. If some one is trying to sell me on a cheap idea I normally try to check out the pros and cons..

 

[harleydragon]

I personally like spring over lifts .mine handle fine on the road even at interstate speeds and cost me very little because I do all of my fabrication..I can see people having the problems and expenses mentioned above if they did not do all of their own fabrication or it was their first ones. I currently have 3 jeeps,2 CJ7 's and a yj.They are all spring over with stock springs.They still ride good and handle good on the street..Since this is all new to the guy that started this thread ,he should probably not do a spring over but just use some 2 1/2 inch springs..then if he needs a little more,get it from a body lift,shackles or both

 

[Old Dog]

I'm gonna get on my soap box about SOA's..

Pro's: Cost for the soa spring perches.. Less then $100. If you can weld your self then it's really cheap.

Cons

#1..it will give you 5-6" of lift which is way more then you need for 33's. Figure 2.5" for the axle tube +1-1.5" for the new spring mounts + 1.5-2" for the spring pack.

#2.. The steering will make contact with the springs since they are now above the axle. This can be addressed by a) just driving it b) tie rod flip cost about $100 for the kit c) some stupid looking S or Z bar linkage which are weak and know to fail or d) convert the front passenger side knuckle to high steer which is going to set you back around $600 but that is he best and most correct way to fix the steering.

#3.. If the steering is left in the stock position you will probably end up with a crazy about of bump steer. Google soa steering problems.

#4.. Axle wrap. With the soa the springs are more susceptible to axle wrap.. Again google it. That can be fixed by installing a anti wrap of ladder bar.. Another $AMC 150 -200 to set one up if you know how to do it.

Please don't get me wrong. It this was a designated mud or trail rig then you would be ok because to don't go fast enough for the steering issues to bother you.. As a daily driver I think you would be very unhappy. If they are done correctly and steering/anti wrap is addressed you are looking between $1000-1500 which is way more then a good sua spring set up.

Fortunately it's your jeep.. You can do what ever you like with it.. If some one is trying to sell me on a cheap idea I normally try to check out the pros and cons..

I agree with all this except #2b. doing a tie rod flip will not work with a SOA
the springs will still hit the tie rod. You have to do the high steer knuckles on both sides.

 

[harleydragon]

I grew up on the farm helping build and modify farm equipment to meet our needs.As I grew up and started building choppers,at that time there was not a tremendous amount of custom parts available and usually I couldn't afford them anyway.By the time I started screwing with jeeps I owned my own fabrication and welding business.So,while aftermarket parts might have been available it was already second nature to me to build my own custom parts.When I first did spring overs on willys and cj's,I built my own spring perches,driveshafts,traction bars,drop limiting chains,body lift brackets,modified and fabed frontend parts and anything else needed. I bought very little.It did take a lot of time and a little trial and error,especially on the first couple.But,I ended up with machines that performed great on and off road..Many talk about all these big dollar figures to do a spring over and swear that your machine will not handle as it should unless you spend it.That is just not so.If you understand mechanics,can fabricate and don't mind doing all the work then you can build a great handling,spring over jeep without laying out a ton of cash..My green CJ7 has a 350 putting out close to 400 horses and is sitting on 37 inch military good years.It will accelerate and handle in traffic like a 68 camaro SS.At 80 mph I just have my hand layed up on the steering wheel,not fighting it. It is a great daily driver and it has none of these high dollar parts that have been mentioned..Bottom line is,you can fabricate most anything that you set your mind to..

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Harley you obviously know what your talking about and how to fab things to make them right. Unfortunately when giving advice to some one on these forums you need to look into Thier question and see exactly what they are asking. For example

I want to lift my 69 CJ5 . should I go 2.5 inches or 4 and if I go 4 do I need modifications to the manual steering, a drop pitman arm, etc.?

To me this states I'm new to jeeps and 4x4's and have little to know experience. Which is fine since we all start out there. I would take this as sign that he does not have full fab shop at his disposal so he will have to pay for labor and the expertise of some one like your self to do the work for him.

I have a few metal fab shops locally and the all have a no work on vehicle policy to keep from liability if their work fails while your driving down the road so to get that type of work done here you have to go to a 4x4 shop where they are comfortable with bending you over before they do your lift. Great thing about the internet and forums is we all get to share of vast array of information that we have done, seen work and seen failed. I'm lucky enough to live in an area that has a petty big area set aside for riding and I get to see plenty of horrible things done on 4x4's and the number one thing is improperly set up soa's

If you can do a soa with out any other mods to the front axle then you need to share with us your secrets. I definitely be interested in seeing how you modified your Dana 30 front end to not crumble under the power of that motor and 37" tires.

 

[harleydragon]

Harley you obviously know what your talking about and how to fab things to make them right. Unfortunately when giving advice to some one on these forums you need to look into Thier question and see exactly what they are asking. For example



To me this states I'm new to jeeps and 4x4's and have little to know experience. Which is fine since we all start out there. I would take this as sign that he does not have full fab shop at his disposal so he will have to pay for labor and the expertise of some one like your self to do the work for him.

I have a few metal fab shops locally and the all have a no work on vehicle policy to keep from liability if their work fails while your driving down the road so to get that type of work done here you have to go to a 4x4 shop where they are comfortable with bending you over before they do your lift. Great thing about the internet and forums is we all get to share of vast array of information that we have done, seen work and seen failed. I'm lucky enough to live in an area that has a petty big area set aside for riding and I get to see plenty of horrible things done on 4x4's and the number one thing is improperly set up soa's

If you can do a soa with out any other mods to the front axle then you need to share with us your secrets. I definitely be interested in seeing how you modified your Dana 30 front end to not crumble under the power of that motor and 37" tires.

Jimbo,I think that if you will look back through this thread you will see that you are the one that climbed up on your soapbox,as you called it and gave your viewpoint of spring over lifts.I simply responded with my own views,not from what I had heard or read,but,from first hand experience.

Also,if you will look at my first post after you got off your soapbox you will see that I recommended that he go with the 2 1/2 inch lift and not try a springover.I might be fairly new to this particular forum but you can bet,this ain't my first rodeo

 

[Petescj]

Harley you obviously know what your talking about and how to fab things to make them right. Unfortunately when giving advice to some one on these forums you need to look into Thier question and see exactly what they are asking. For example



To me this states I'm new to jeeps and 4x4's and have little to know experience. Which is fine since we all start out there. I would take this as sign that he does not have full fab shop at his disposal so he will have to pay for labor and the expertise of some one like your self to do the work for him.

I have a few metal fab shops locally and the all have a no work on vehicle policy to keep from liability if their work fails while your driving down the road so to get that type of work done here you have to go to a 4x4 shop where they are comfortable with bending you over before they do your lift. Great thing about the internet and forums is we all get to share of vast array of information that we have done, seen work and seen failed. I'm lucky enough to live in an area that has a petty big area set aside for riding and I get to see plenty of horrible things done on 4x4's and the number one thing is improperly set up soa's

If you can do a soa with out any other mods to the front axle then you need to share with us your secrets. I definitely be interested in seeing how you modified your Dana 30 front end to not crumble under the power of that motor and 37" tires.

Jimbo,I think that if you will look back through this thread you will see that you are the one that climbed up on your soapbox,as you called it and gave your viewpoint of spring over lifts.I simply responded with my own views,not from what I had heard or read,but,from first hand experience.

Also,if you will look at my first post after you got off your soapbox you will see that I recommended that he go with the 2 1/2 inch lift and not try a springover.I might be fairly new to this particular forum but you can bet,this ain't my first rodeo

You both made your points now. Keep it civil.