Loose steering of front 35's - Listening for the voice of experience.

[DHugg]

I'd like to hear from people ("guys" no longer covers the waterfront, does it?) who have reworked worn-out front ends.

1980 CJ7 304CID with 35's seems to have been much of its life in the West, among rocks. There are rock scars on the pumpkin and other places. I've replaced the PS pump, the box, the 2-piece box mount with a HD single piece, and installed a heavy brace on the steering box shaft housing. That helped a serious sloppy steering condition for a time, but it has crept up on me again. This ride gets me into places I couldn't otherwise reach to set crawling crittur traps for biological research.

I'd like to run it until Christmas when it gets cold enough to pull the crittur traps until spring (Gulf Coast 30 degrees N). I have a set of Timkens for both wheels, and Spicer ball joints for both, but I would like to bandaid the damage until a full teardown.

Where is the most likely place to reduce front wheel wandering? If the answer is either tie-rod and drag link ends or wheel bearings, I can work that over a weekend. If it is ball joints, then I'll bite the bullet and tear down each front wheel and axle for a complete fix.

I think I need more than one Jeep, but if I say that out loud I may as well have said "more than one wife". I know enough to be careful what I wish for.

Appreciate any feedback for those with more experience (with Jeeps) than I.

 

[Torxhead]

The first thing I would check would be for the correct amount of toe-in on the front suspension, I think I run about an 1/8" or so. Check for frame cracks and wheel bearing tightness. Then check out the front end componets before just replacing them. The front suspension can get pretty sensitive with a tire a large as a 35".

 

[mriplaybass]

Also.check the castor angle. With a lift, you decrease the angle causing wander. My lift caused 0 degree castor. A set of 4 degree shims made a world of difference. I plan to go 6 degrees to make it perfect.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I would also ck to see what you have in side to side wobble of the tires and how round they are.
Have a pro shop ck the front end alignment and get specs for toe-in, camber and castor.
LG

 

[hdgapeach]

All the steering linkage is subject to scrutiny; tie rod ends and all joints till you get back up to the pitman arm. The pitman arm should be evaluated also because of the 35's. If you don't already have one, a drop pitman installed to offset a suspension lift that excessively angles the steering geometry would be necessary.

My experience with ball joints taught me to check 'em when "clunking" was heard from the front. Also steering that randomly pulls to one side and will change to pulling to the other side for what seems like no reason, can indicate ball joint issues.

The steering box and mount should be checked for tightness since you say your repairs helped "for a time". I have to re-torque mine a couple times a year. My steering column also has a rag joint near the bottom of the shaft close to where it attaches to the gear box. They wear out, too.

As previously stated; alignment, caster angle (part of a thorough alignment), air pressure in all four tires (low rear pressure can affect steering), wheel bearing condition and torque.......

Axle U-bolts, shackle hangers and all associated bushings - Good grief! It never ends

 

[IOPort51]

I took the play out almost exclusively in the steering u joints, Tie rods would be pretty obvious, I would think. Is this a death wobble kind of thing or an all the time kind of thing?

sorry I just went back and re read the OP . a wandering issue I would want to check the caster angle, which makes me ask how you got the room to run 35s. How did you lift it and how much?

 

[Sasquach]

^^what hdgapeach said^^ everything needs to be checked.

 

[IOPort51]

^^what hdgapeach said^^ everything needs to be checked.

and you can bet it will be in the last place you look.

 

[Torxhead]

There was an old posting from a guy I think his name was TFHostettler or something that had a complete rundown on checking front end geometry. I lost it during a computer cleanout, can somebody bring it up?

 

[DHugg]

The first thing I would check would be for the correct amount of toe-in on the front suspension, I think I run about an 1/8" or so. Check for frame cracks and wheel bearing tightness. Then check out the front end componets before just replacing them. The front suspension can get pretty sensitive with a tire a large as a 35".

Thnx, Torxhead. Didn't think about toe-in.

 

[DHugg]

and you can bet it will be in the last place you look.

I'm happy with everything upstream of the drop pittman arm. I think I'll look in the last place first, IO. Gonna replace ball joints and wheel bearings and work out to the pittman arm.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I'm happy with everything upstream of the drop pittman arm. I think I'll look in the last place first, IO. Gonna replace ball joints and wheel bearings and work out to the pittman arm.

Why not have the alignment checked buy a pro to have a starting point?
If your toe-in, camber & caster are out of spec.(axle could be bent too). New ball-joints and bearings won't help.
LG

 

[Old Dog]

as someone else said, I got rid of a lot of my play by going to a steering shaft with u-joints instead of the stock pos.
Here's a link to the post Tork was talking about. http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f99/troubleshooting-correcting-your-steering-4106/

 

[DHugg]

as someone else said, I got rid of a lot of my play by going to a steering shaft with u-joints instead of the stock pos.
Here's a link to the post Tork was talking about. http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f99/troubleshooting-correcting-your-steering-4106/

Thanks, Old Dog. That was the first thing I did, a Flaming River SS shaft. The OEM shaft bearing sockets were full of red talcum powder rust, no bearings left. I won't live long enough to do this again, so I gotta do it right and make it last.

Denny

 

[DHugg]

Why not have the alignment checked buy a pro to have a starting point?
If your toe-in, camber & caster are out of spec.(axle could be bent too). New ball-joints and bearings won't help.
LG

LG, everything I've touched from the back brakes forward up to the front axle, and from the steering pump to the Pittman arm has been worn out. I think I have to bite the bullet, do the work, then follow you suggestion. I'd have to just do the alignment again after parts install.

The wander effect is coupled to a dead spot in the steering, and I have reworked and rechecked everything up to the front wheel hardware. I can limp along on back roads for the next two weeks getting to where I am trapping.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Lift the front wheels off the ground a couple of inches.
Grab the first tire at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions. Ck for play by push/pull. Do same with other tire.
You shouldn't have any play-IF you do, see if you can tell if it's in the hub/spindle or upper/lower ball joints.
Good luck,
LG

 

[mriplaybass]

LG, everything I've touched from the back brakes forward up to the front axle, and from the steering pump to the Pittman arm has been worn out. I think I have to bite the bullet, do the work, then follow you suggestion. I'd have to just do the alignment again after parts install.

The wander effect is coupled to a dead spot in the steering, and I have reworked and rechecked everything up to the front wheel hardware. I can limp along on back roads for the next two weeks getting to where I am trapping.

Thanks for the advice.

Although my main problem was the caster angle, I too had a "dead spot" in my steering" I could move the steering wheel roughly 10° either direction without the wheels moving. I replaced the defective gear box and purchased another one and the "dead spot" was eliminated. With the new box, I could feel the road better, but the wander was still there until I corrected the caster angle.
Like Lumpy said, you might want to have an alignment shop at least check your alignment if you don't know how to do it yourself. Even if the alignment is OK, they will automatically check the steering components in order to sell you additional services so you will know what needs to be replaced. Do the work yourself, and take it back to them for a professional alignment. Just throwing parts at your Jeep won't fix anything if something is out of alignment.

 

[DHugg]

Bass, thanks. I had the identical experience until replacing the POS 2-piece box mount, and the worn steering box with AGR Super Box II. I don't know any shop here that I trust enough to take my Jeep to. I will work the caster angle myself.

Based on the wear and neglect I found in every part I touched, I think the front-end parts I'll change out are needed. If I delay, I'll just have to do it again in the future.

I've decided that it is a risk to get simple services done commercially, unless it is with someone I have had past dealings with. Since I do all my own work, I don;t know anyone. A simple oil change will return a cross-threaded pan plug that will leak on Madam's garage floor. That's not conjecture.... I just tapped the pan plug hole to half inch to correct that same malady.

Appreciate your feedback.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

It's a smart idea to use the services of an alignment shop. The only thing they attach will clamp to the inside of the wheel.
Buy using an alignment shop, you remove ALL guessing and know what needs to be correct'd.
Good luck,
LG