Need help with wandering

[olskulcj]

Thanks for looking and helping....Just finished a build and every suspension part brand new with exception of steering box and I still have wandering at every speed. SO frustrating.
Shackles are standard. Running 33" with a 4" lift. Just installed 4 degree castors and had it aligned- everything is to spec. What should I be looking at next? Stiff ball joints? Getting a new steering box?

https://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/phot...j.com/forums/photo_popup.php?e=vB_Editor_001#

 

[sparkzaflyin]

Thanks for looking and helping....Just finished a build and every suspension part brand new with exception of steering box and I still have wandering at every speed. SO frustrating.
Shackles are standard. Running 33" with a 4" lift. Just installed 4 degree castors and had it aligned- everything is to spec. What should I be looking at next? Stiff ball joints? Getting a new steering box?

https://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/phot...j.com/forums/photo_popup.php?e=vB_Editor_001#

Welcome to the forum! I have a 1972 CJ5 , mild body lift, stock suspension with 30/9.50 tires. I also had a wandering drivability as well, good tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. I determined the problem was the lower steering column bearing, replaced that, no more wander. Don't know if that would apply to you, something to check though.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

:ww:

Get it to another alignment shop ASAP.
Bet your camber is way off along with toe-in.........
Most likely will need to use shims under the axle pad to correct the camber. Use only steel, and not the common cast made ones.
Post up what the shop shows for you camber, castor and toe-in.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

If you used wedges and your running stock axle over spring configuration, the thick end goes forward. I've seen them in backwards on several occasions. Try 6* wedges, that I what mine likes.

 

[olskulcj]

Welcome to the forum! I have a 1972 CJ5 , mild body lift, stock suspension with 30/9.50 tires. I also had a wandering drivability as well, good tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. I determined the problem was the lower steering column bearing, replaced that, no more wander. Don't know if that would apply to you, something to check though.

Thanks sparkz, I will def check that out. Thanks for the suggestion.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[olskulcj]

:ww:

Get it to another alignment shop ASAP.
Bet your camber is way off along with toe-in.........
Most likely will need to use shims under the axle pad to correct the camber. Use only steel, and not the common cast made ones.
Post up what the shop shows for you camber, castor and toe-in.
LG

This place is quality and have no doubts that their laser system would be correct. Also I have castor shims already that brought me to spec.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[olskulcj]

If you used wedges and your running stock axle over spring configuration, the thick end goes forward. I've seen them in backwards on several occasions. Try 6* wedges, that I what mine likes.

Thanks Hedge, I have them correctly oriented. I was also thinking of going to 6 degrees...you think 2 degrees would make that much difference- it's already within spec?

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Lumpy Grits]

This place is quality and have no doubts that their laser system would be correct. Also I have castor shims already that brought me to spec.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

Castor shims-I'm talking about camber. Castor is set when the axle is built.
What was your camber before and after the shop got done with it? Do you have those specs?
If the place had done the work correctly-You wouldn't be having the issues you are now having.
THAT is why I said take it somewhere else.
LG

 

[JR74CJ5]

Couple other things to consider:

Tires - both air pressure and balancing.

Do you have a sway bar?

Steering box mount stable - no cracks?

Is there slop in the steering box? if tires are on the ground and you have excessive slop from the input shaft area in the box, then even when holding the wheel straight, your steering can wander a bit. Not saying replace your box, just figure out where the slop is. Column like others suggested, or box, or the mount for the box, etc.

 

[olskulcj]

Castor shims-I'm talking about camber. Castor is set when the axle is built.
What was your camber before and after the shop got done with it? Do you have those specs?
If the place had done the work correctly-You wouldn't be having the issues you are now having.
THAT is why I said take it somewhere else.
LG

Lumpy, this is what I got. The mechanic didn't make any changes, told me all was good and didn't charge me. I'm a novice- do you see anything here?

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[olskulcj]

Couple other things to consider:

Tires - both air pressure and balancing.

Do you have a sway bar?

Steering box mount stable - no cracks?

Is there slop in the steering box? if tires are on the ground and you have excessive slop from the input shaft area in the box, then even when holding the wheel straight, your steering can wander a bit. Not saying replace your box, just figure out where the slop is. Column like others suggested, or box, or the mount for the box, etc.

Thanks for the suggestions. I do have a sway bar and my box is tight with a brace. No give anywhere. I've inspected for any slop but not much to be found. I'm going to double check tire pressure and see if that helps.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[olskulcj]

Couple other things to consider:

Tires - both air pressure and balancing.

Do you have a sway bar?

Steering box mount stable - no cracks?

Is there slop in the steering box? if tires are on the ground and you have excessive slop from the input shaft area in the box, then even when holding the wheel straight, your steering can wander a bit. Not saying replace your box, just figure out where the slop is. Column like others suggested, or box, or the mount for the box, etc.

Meant to insert picture in case you guys see something I dont.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[JR74CJ5]

Your pitman is a little high on angle, I'd probably do the tie rod flip thing, but that's more of a bump steer kind of thing.

It all looks good as far as I can see...

Toes don't match up too well, if I'm reading it right, one side toes in and other out, which could present a bit of a wander issue?

Lumpy?

 

[JR74CJ5]

Heres another thread with some more info too:

https://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f19/help-my-wandering-issue-18443/

 

[Lumpy Grits]

All the shop did was to adjust your toe-in, out out spec. The toe-in is adjusted via the tie rod.
You are clearly out of spec on caster.
Readjust the tow-in to a total of 1/8"
And-FIND ANOTHER SHOP!
What degree shims do you have in now? The look like the cheap cast zinc alloy ones.

LG

 

[JR74CJ5]

If the shims are cast zinc, they'll flex and crush right? That's why steel is preferred...

I think CJ's should have 0 camber right? He's pretty dang close with under a degree of negative. I would prefer a tad positive if not zero in these things to slightly help in corners, but should be as close to zero as possible I believe...

Caster should be 4 to 6 degrees positive, which he's just over - shop's tolerances are a little higher spec wise, but don't see much wrong there:

Toe, Caster, and Camber – Adjusting Camber | jeepfan.com

Toe, Caster, and Camber – Adjusting Castor | jeepfan.com

Dana 30 and Dana 44 Front Axle Caster Adjustment – Spring Wedges | jeepfan.com

little more info:

Toe, Caster, and Camber - What does it mean and how to adjust it.

This may help some when you're discussing with that shop or a new one etc.

You can also check and adjust some of this yourself.

Google has a lot of info on these subjects too if you get to reading and want more info / techniques on testing, reading symptoms, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong on anything Lumpy

 

[Lumpy Grits]

His caster is off. That is what I meant to type.
My fingers are not listening to my pea-brain again.
His toe-in is way off, and that is vital with wide tires.
That caster deal can come from a bent axle also.
YES-to the shims being made from cheap, alloy castings.
Fix those 2 items and let's see what that does.
You can fix all 3 items IF you have the tools and know how. Camber and toe-in are easy to do.
Some more info here.
http://www.4wdmechanix.com/moses-lu...e-do-it-yourself-wheel-alignment-equipment-2/
LG

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Another area that needs to be looked at. Is there and wheel bearing play/slop?
LG

 

[olskulcj]

His caster is off. That is what I meant to type.
My fingers are not listening to my pea-brain again.
His toe-in is way off, and that is vital with wide tires.
That caster deal can come from a bent axle also.
YES-to the shims being made from cheap, alloy castings.
Fix those 2 items and let's see what that does.
You can fix all 3 items IF you have the tools and know how. Camber and toe-in are easy to do.
Some more info here.
http://www.4wdmechanix.com/moses-lu...e-do-it-yourself-wheel-alignment-equipment-2/
LG

Great stuff Lumpy and JR. Appreciate you guys taking the time and sharing your knowledge. I'll get on those adjustments and keep you posted.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[tarry99]

Anything from the rear suspension being out of alignment forward to the front suspension including all bushings , even a weak spring or shock in one corner & tire balance can effect how the vehicle handles going down the road.

I would grab a friend and set him in the seat and have him just start slowly cycling the steering wheel left 1" to right 1" while you on the outside follow that motion from the steering wheel down the column to the steering gear and out the sector shaft to the spindles and ball joints and wheel bearings.............. everything should be near 1:1 ratio in movement unless you have a variable ratio gear box...............while your crawling around underneath check the steering gear mounts and watch how much the frame flexes around the spring mounts...........

One last thing........the steering gear box has to be centered....to equal turns left and right to start the alignment , toe in . and drag link adjustment process........ sometimes alignment people fail to go back and center the gearbox in that centered sweet spot , which also means that sometimes the steering wheel also has to be re-centered..........