New Hydro clutch slave cylinder will not bleed!

[Red Dawg]

I have replaced the hydro clutch slave cyl., master cyl.,and the hydro line. I have the GM 151 4 cyl. and a T-5 (5speed) Transmission .

my problem: everytime I try to bleed the slave cyl. it pops the plunger out the end of the cyl.

I have made sure each is bench blead, and I am using my Hayne's manual as a reference, but each time the same result.

My question: Does the clutch fork need a spring for return(external) or is this spring inside the bellhousing?

The clutch fork is not returning or the slave cyl. is not pulling back in after pressure is applied.
I thought maybe I had a air pocket but this last try at bleeding the system it was not bubbling air in my container, but the clutch fork/slave did not return and the plunger popped AGAIN.

this has happened 5-6 times and I am at my wits end...
Any help or advise would be appreciated.
Oh, I have researched this site and found a few posts for installation and bleeding but nothing on this problem.

Thanks.....

 

[Sasquach]

Red Dawg, I have no experience with your system but.. As I look at the manual there is a spring or should be on back side of throw out lever.
I'm having trouble picturing the plunger coming out if everything is assembled as it seams like it should not have enough throw out lever movement for that to occur. Even if there is a spring it's not gona limit travel it seams?
Do you have all the parts shown on the pushrod end? spring, washer and seal.

 

[Red Dawg]

thanks for your reply, Sasquach.
The plunger is coming out of the slave cyl. but staying inside of the rubber boot that the push rod goes thru.

I can reinsert it everytime but it is getting old as I have been doing this for a couple afternoon's now.
Are you asking about the spring, washer and seal off the master cyl.? if so no probs there.

aslo what manual are you looking at. I have a Chilton's and Hayne's.

 

[Red Dawg]

I would like to see a pic of the spring placement as there was not one on my unit when I started this project.

 

[Sasquach]

I was looking at a Chilton Jeep 45-87 and it's pretty vague on the subject.
I was refering to the slave cylinder, there is an exploded view of the clutch assembly and on the end of the slave cyl push rod is a washer, spring, pivot and seal were it contacts the throw out lever. From looking at that I could see were you might have a problem if the pivot fell off or not there?

 

[Red Dawg]

I am using Chilton's 71-86 CJ/Scrambler and it is vague also. It gives me an exploded view of the master cyl. but nothing on the slave. It doesn't even show a pic with the clutch assy using the slave cyl.

Unfortunatly there is no Jeep guru's that I know of around my area, so I thought I would reach out to all the guru's here.
I am at my wits end and thanks Sasquach......

 

[Sasquach]

Best thing you could do is buy yourself the correct factory service manual aka FSM for your year CJ, It will cover in greater detail your CJ and not 15 years worth of variations to sift through. The one I have for my 78 came from Faxon? and is a reprint of the original 3 book set and cost $80 but the first thing it helps you fix it's paid for itself.

And your not being ignored it's just the 4 cyl is not real common around here I guess.

 

[Cheepjeep85]

i am pretty sure you don't need a return spring because the pressure plate should provide all of the force you need to return the clutch fork back to its original position, on a manual clutch like mine it has a spring on the outside that holds the clutch linkage to the fork and that is the only purpose for it. that being said the only time i've ever fooled with a hydraulic clutch was on a bronco 2 and i was told by my buddy who helped me replace the clutch and was also a ford tech told me to take the lid off of the master cyl. and just let it set, and let the air bubbles work themselves out overnight. i got in it the next day and what do you know it bleed itself. just remember the T-5 is more or less a ford tranny. i hope this helps.

 

[Red Dawg]

thanks guys!!
after more inspection I have figuared out the clutch fork is not returning after clutch depression so I am looking at pulling the tranny and replacing the clutch/pp/throw out bearing.
I appreciate all the advice.
and the 4cyl GM 151 has a short life left with me.as soon as I can find a donor 6cyl in my area I will be making a swap!

remember I am learning on the job here... I never claimed to be a mechanic! LOL!!

Thanks!!

 

[Sasquach]

thanks guys!!
after more inspection I have figuared out the clutch fork is not returning after clutch depression so I am looking at pulling the tranny and replacing the clutch/pp/throw out bearing.
I appreciate all the advice.
and the 4cyl GM 151 has a short life left with me.as soon as I can find a donor 6cyl in my area I will be making a swap!

remember I am learning on the job here... I never claimed to be a mechanic! LOL!!

Thanks!!

That was my next question...does your clutch work right or did it prior to what your doing?
But sounds like you got it on track!

 

[Cheepjeep85]

thats what we are all here for. sounds like you have already thought about the best solution to your 4 banger problems. when you buy a 6 cyl. see if you can't get the whole drive train look for a later model with the 2bbl intake T-176 4 speed, and Dana 300 , also grab the driveshafts if you can, somebody around you will be swapping all of that out, so they can build the badass rock crawler of their dreams. how far are you from atlanta? how far are you willing to drive to get parts cheap?

 

[54cj3b]

easiest way to do it is remove line from slave pump master slow filling the line getting all air out than reconnect now bleed the slave it should now bleed for you

 

[CJ]

i am pretty sure you don't need a return spring because the pressure plate should provide all of the force you need to return the clutch fork back to its original position, ~~~

It will work without a spring, but you do want one... The spring pulls the fork away from the pressure plate so the throw out bearing is not in contact with the pressure plate all the time. If the throw out bearing is always turning it leads to premature failure.

 

[Cheepjeep85]

very good to know. i wouldn't have thought they had one ^^^^^

 

[CJ]

very good to know. i wouldn't have thought they had one ^^^^^

Funny huh? The TO bearing should only contact the PP (pressure plate) when using the clutch, I have replaced several TO bearings because they were not adjusted correctly....

 

[Red Dawg]

sorry for not posting for a few days ... been sick.
Cheepjeep85 I am 3.5 hrs from atlanta, not a bad drive.
I am about to pull the Transmission and put in a new clutch kit.(this afternoon)
after I have the flywheel surfaced tomorrow and re-install all I will update you guys on the slave bleed.

I am hoping the pressure plate not returning the clutch fork is my problem.
updates tomorrow.... thanks again!

 

[Cheepjeep85]

there is a guy a little north of atlanta that will sell you a whole drivetrain for a good price when you start lookin for one let me know and ill get you his number.

 

[Red Dawg]

Thanks cheepjeep85 but seeing I was laid off my job last month I dont think I could swing an engine swap right now.

I pulled the tranny out and found the pivot ball that the fork rides on was missing and the throw out bearing/ clutch fork springs were bent.

so I am now looking for a pivot ball. any ideas on where I can get one?
does the local parts houses carry these?

thanks guys......

 

[Cheepjeep85]

i'm not for sure about local stores having it. i understand on being out of a job i was jobless from dec. 09 till april 10, with out unemployment.

 

[Red Dawg]

Lucky me!
I found a local guy with several parts jeeps and he had the pivot ball for the clutch fork. turns out to be a 5/8 ball bearing. simple but not the norm!

I ordered a rear main seal(which will be in sat morning).
bought new u-joints for both drive shafts.
bought the clutch kit and pivot ball.
had the fly wheel turned today.
cleaned and de-greased all parts this afternoon.
I'll be re-installing by lunch sat morning.

thanks for all the input from everyone.

also found out about a jeep junkyard in Talledega Al.
Jackson & sons (googled-no website) phone-256-362-7772