Help New member, new CJ7, fuel injection questions

[Bob95065]

I bought a 1980 CJ7 about a month ago. It is in pretty good shape as it was a California Jeep it's whole life. Sadly someone hacked up the wiring so bad it isn't salvageable and I'm in for a new harness.

I am considering a couple paths forward to get it to pass smog. It was sold to me with a non-op registration.

I have a line on a used Mopar conversion kit. An advantage of this kit is it is CA legal and comes with the sticker for the smog shop. The harmonic balancer is missing from the kit but is otherwise complete.

I am also considering a Holley Sniper BBD kit. What I like about this option is I can get a distributor and a MSD box and control the spark with the touchscreen. The big downside is it isn't CARB legal.

Does anyone have opinions on these two options? Does one option offer performance gains over the other?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[Belizean]

If you are in Cali how are you going to pass smog ? I was looking for the Mopar but could not find new except for unreasonable money. I'm going with the Sniper but I don't have to worry about smog here.

 

[Bob95065]

It's not the best but I am gathering the stock setup with thee carb. I'll pass smog that way.

 

[Techlight]

Easiest way to get by smog in CA is to get a Howell TBI kit. I originally purchased the MOPAR kit but it got discontinued and my order was canceled. I hear the MPI is worlds better than the TBI which makes sense in terms of tech lol. I have heard really good things about the Sniper set up but not smog legal.

 

[cglax6]

I have the Sniper on my 351w swap with Hyperspark CD box, coil and distributor. It works great and pretty much hassle free as long as you follow the directions. Unfortunately, not smog approved, so if it were me, I'd move...hahahaha!

 

[gert]

sure is a shame that they discontinued the MOPAR MPI kit, I’m not sure if you can even get the dampener anymore, Coldair has that kit on his Jeep

The good thing with the Howell kit is that it’s a GM TBI with parts available everywhere when it takes a poop, that’s the kit I’m working on installing on my CJ

 

[Bob95065]

The Mopar kit has been sold so that option is off the table.

My thinking between Sniperr BBD and Howell is this:

Howell
Pros: easy to find replacement parts, been around for a long time
Cons: It seems to me from what I read that this is old technology

Sniper BBD
Pros: modern technology. Able to control spark if a Holley or MSD distributor and box are used
Cons: may be hard to find parts if something fails. Not CARB legal. Would have to swap in original parts every 2 years to pass.

Is this accurate?

 

[Techlight]

You would have to swap in parts to pass smog. But it's a bit more involved than that. You'd have to swap in and out the TB, adapter plate, wiring harness, all sensors including the speed sensor, and computer...and tune it of course. Then do it all over with the sniper after smog. Seems like a lot of work to get by smog and then reinstall the sniper. I'm not sure what the sniper costs but the Howell is around $1600...add both of those up and I'm gonna guess you're gonna be at the 3k mark or so at least.

I know the sniper is bad <-BAD WORD->, but your 285 is a tractor motor ...not sure you really need all that fine control over it. Not saying it wouldn't be awesome, but with the time and money my personal opinion is buy the howell and a good HEI and be done with it. You can spend the money you were going to spend on the sniper on a new suspension or some other goody. [Note that there is no CARB HEI but no one gives me any about it during smog for the most part and I'm down south of you.]

Your other option is to install the sniper and trailer it to wherever you play...register it as an off road only vehicle maybe.

 

[Bob95065]

Thanks for the reply. What I was thinking of doing was testing with the BBD carburetor then going to the Sniper.

The Jeep has a HEI in it. I have a line on a used MSD distributor, coil and 6a box that are all CARB compliant. The ignition side would be covered that way. I put a MSD coil and box on a 1994 Toyota truck I had years ago. I saw a 2MPG and noticeable power gains.

 

[Techlight]

If you have all the original equipment for the BBD I suppose it's doable, but their is a ton of stuff attached to a 80's CJ for smog. Might be less on your 80 but on my 84 it was a nightmare. I ran the stock carb for awhile and had a good mechanic that new how to tune them so I had no trouble with smog, but the vacuum hoses alone were crazy.

I'm not saying what you want to do is impossible...just a lot of work.

 

[boney]

I bought my CJ7 non-op as well. It had been running around a ranch for 20 years and only tuned to run. The cost of finding replacement smog parts was over half the cost of a Howell TBI and all those parts were sold "as is" (which means to me that they don't work.)

Once installed, the jeep starts and runs on the first turn of the key, every time. I have not had any reliability issue other than a bad O2 sensor out of the box. It didn't cause drivability problems, only cost me a little bit in gas mileage and I was lazy about replacing it. Found a Bosch replacement for $45.

I haven't found a smog legal HEI yet, however the MSD box is tempting.

 

[hole]

You could also find a smog guy who turns a blind eye , they cost more though..... Or move out of this over-regulated craphole (this option is on my horizon)

 

[BrockGrimes]

The Mopar kit has been sold so that option is off the table.

My thinking between Sniperr BBD and Howell is this:

Howell
Pros: easy to find replacement parts, been around for a long time
Cons: It seems to me from what I read that this is old technology

Sniper BBD
Pros: modern technology. Able to control spark if a Holley or MSD distributor and box are used
Cons: may be hard to find parts if something fails. Not CARB legal. Would have to swap in original parts every 2 years to pass.

Is this accurate?

I built my own using a harness from AFI - affordable fuel injection.
So AFI is another option, they have complete kits.

The TBI setup is easily hands down the best option. They are super easy to maintain and troubleshoot, especially if you are off road. Remember when it comes to jeeps less is more. Few parts to break and have to firetruck with. Remember this is a jeep not a race car, the TBI setup is plenty. Dollar for dollar i'll take it anyday.

 

[TSB8C]

I love my Edelbrock "Pro-Flo 4" kit. I have the "4150" style system. It is not TBI. It is true multiport injection (separate injector at each cylinder). I tried a kit from AFI and had nothing but issues. Eventually trashed it. The Pro-Flo uses an Android tablet or even your phone. I believe they just recently released a firmware update to support iOS as well. This "air gap" intake and computer setup came pre-installed on my "ZZ6 EFI" Crate engine and is super easy to setup and tune. Controls both fuel and ignition (unlike the AFI system that was fuel only) and you can tune without getting replacement chips burned every time like AFI did. But I don't know about CARB compliance or not.

 

[RangerRick]

There are lots of people who have swapped in the 4.0L H.O. head and MPI EFI fuel injection on their older CJ's and Wranglers. Many have also swapped GM TBI injection on their 4/6/8cyl Jeep and Chevy replacement engines. It's been done and there are lots of writeups on the mods necessary to make it work.

However,
To those living in the PRK (Peoples Republic of Kalifornia) you are going to have troubles with your smog on any 1976 or newer Jeep. Unless you go through the process of having the Bureau of Automotive Repair inspectors at the BAR look it over to "certify" any conversion, or you're gonna have trouble every 2 years at smog time.

I would recommend for simplicity sake to go with the Howell conversion because they give you a nifty sticker that has the magic "CARB-OE approved numbers" showing this throttle body injection, (TBI for short) modification has been approved by the state authorities in California. HOWELL WENT THROUGH THE TIME, EFFORT, PROCEDURES AND EXPENSE TO HAVE THEIR CONVERSION APPROVED BY CALIFORNIA BAR AND PAID FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. As with ANY modification to the engine, it's intake, exhaust or fuel system, (including the evaporative emissions controls) like the charcoal cannister. Any mod has to have the CARB-OE certificate of approval number clearly visible on a sticker under the hood or you risk FAILURE AT SMOG CHECK TIME.

I have NO affiliation with Howell or any other company, just want to make sure you know what you're getting into here and the EASIEST, which is not necessarily the cheapest route to reliable fuel management. I hate carburetors in almost all applications including 4x4's and boats!

In my former life years ago, I ran one of the largest smog check stations in Los Angeles/Orange County and I can tell you that the inspectors will ABSOLUTLY FAIL YOUR HOLLEY EFI KIT without the CARB-OE approval stickers and a diagnostic port with a "Check engine" or "SES-Service Engine Soon" maintenance indicator lamp.

All cars medium duty trucks and SUV's in California manufactured between 1976 and 2000 that are gasoline powered or have propane, LNG, Nat Gas conversions and or can run dual fuel E85 etc. require a biennial smog check. They will be run at two speeds on an in-ground dynamometer to check emissions at the tail pipe. These same vehicles will also have to pass a "visual" inspection and the fuel evaporative control system including fuel cap and fillpipe lead restrictor will be tested. 2001 and newer vehicles are not dyno tested, they are simply plugged into and the state smog machine reads the live stream data with codes to determine if there is a problem or if it passes. Typically if all "flags" are set in the computer ECM, it will pass unless a significant modification or visual failure occurs. Something like the fuel cap missing or the evaporative emissions cannister has been tampered with or disconnected. Or if the vehicle smokes too much from a bad head gasket or oil blow-by etc.

Any vehicle with a maintenance lamp on will automatically fail the test. Any vehicle with certain error or maintenance codes stored in the computers memory or that have not been driven long enough since the last computer memory "reset" will also fail. Most vehicles require several drive cycles to set enough of these "flags" in the computer to be able to run the emissions test successfully.

Some vehicles are not read by the state computer because there are no diagnostics to them to be able to live read. Examples would be the early Jeep Cherokee XJ "RENEX" 4.0L motors. These do not have a diagnostic port so they are not live scanned but any that have an ALDL port or OBD-1/2 diagnostics port on them are live scanned PRE SMOG and WHILE UNDER TEST. Any aftermarket chips or programming has to be removed or returned to stock to keep from failing under test. Things like the Gale Banks 6-Pack changeable proms must be removed prior to inspection or it will be a fail.

If you are not savvy about smog and these things, I would highly recommend not to go it alone and DIY or choose a whizbang EFI system that uses your cell phone or tablet LCD to tune etc. on the fly for your Jeep. Choose a system that is approved and will give you the needed CARB-OE sticker number so it is a no-brainer when you go to get the smog check done. This way, if you sell it to someone else, they won't have troubles either. It will pass easy and simple provided everything is working.

**Sorry for the long-winded response but I have witnessed too many people go through ever living hell trying to register or renew their registration in this state for two lifetimes.

If you are savvy, you can do your own multi-point EFI on the older carbureted Jeep engines but you have to know what the emissions laws are so you can go to the referee and get it inspected for the "approval sticker" or it will be an ordeal EVERY TIME.

A DIY EFI or TBI system can be built using junkyard parts but again, you have to know the laws and what emissions components were required from the donor vehicle or the Jeep to satisfy the legal requirements of the smog program.

Examples of things needed from either the donor or the Jeep recipient:

Charcoal cannister
evaporative emissions purge solenoid
ECM
Diagnostic port
MIL (Maintenance Indicator. Lamp)
Properly setup and programmed ECM computer
Wiring harness with proper sensor connections
Proper engine sensors for RPM, Temperature, Air-flow, Distributor position etc.
Distributor or ignition system to be controlled by the computer
Catalytic convertor
Possibly exhaust air-injection system and pump and valves to control
Possibly an EGR valve and plumbing or solenoid to control

These are just a few things to think about.

RR

 

[RangerRick]

Just in time for this thread, @CJ has backed up a site with a lot of good DIY information on GM Rochester TBI conversions for Jeep.

Look at this post and search for some ideas regarding the TBI fuel injection conversion on an AMC Jeep:

http://www.jeep-cj.com/bustedjeep/home/index.html

On Busted Jeep there were two articles related to fuel management that could be of interest for the OP here.

The first is of adding a GM Rochester TBI injection system to AMC Jeep motors.

The second is of installing a full-monte 4.0L system with MPFI fuel injection.

Both of these are DIY but if done right can be made California legal if you don't buy a full premade kit for it. Even if you do buy a smog approved kit, it has a lot of details on what it was based off of and how it all would go together if you do it yourself.

Many thanks and credit to @CJ for backing up this great site and the information that can help others.

RR

 

[MattJ]

I love my Edelbrock "Pro-Flo 4" kit. I have the "4150" style system. It is not TBI. It is true multiport injection (separate injector at each cylinder). I tried a kit from AFI and had nothing but issues. Eventually trashed it. The Pro-Flo uses an Android tablet or even your phone. I believe they just recently released a firmware update to support iOS as well. This "air gap" intake and computer setup came pre-installed on my "ZZ6 EFI" Crate engine and is super easy to setup and tune. Controls both fuel and ignition (unlike the AFI system that was fuel only) and you can tune without getting replacement chips burned every time like AFI did. But I don't know about CARB compliance or not.

Good to hear the Edelbrock kit is also recommended here.

 

[letsgobrandon]

I have a Howell,with this set up ,my engine has always been a cold blooded SOB. If I was going to do it again I would go multiport all the way. Or swap in a Webber and call it good.Dont know much about that Edelbrock kit,but its better than Howell.