Newbie Needs Help! (lifting a '76 CJ7)

[MikeAllen237]

Hey Everybody - Total Newbie Here and been searching the ENITRE internet and need help. I just purchased my first jeep, a 1976 CJ7 quadra-trac automatic with the V8. It has no lift and running 31x10.5 tires. I am going to do a 4 inch suspension lift and want to run 33 inch mud terrains. My question is about the stability. I've read many forums about people doing axle swaps, because of the narrow track on the '76. I will be doing almost zero offroading, but more of a classic rebuild to pull out of the garage and cruise the town. Do I need to do an axle swap to have a safer ride for on road driving? I heard a guy talking about his being VERY tippy on turns with a 4 inch lift and 33's. Or if I put 33x12.5s on a 15x10 inch rim, with that be wide enough for some additional stability? Any thoughts or opinions would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Yes wider tires on wider wheels will help... a bit.

The best thing you can do to avoid a rollover is to remember what kind of vehicle you will be driving, and drive accordingly. A CJ is designed for off road travel, and has high clearance to be able to get through rough terrain. Driving even a stock CJ requires you to be very gentle with steering inputs.

I know you are probably going for a cool look buy wanting to lift it, but if you have no intention of taking it on off road trails, it's fine as it sits. I would suggest you put a nice set of wheels on her if you want a different look, but I tend to avoid suggesting a lift for any vehicle that doesn't require it as it only compounds the tippyness of the vehicles. Wider axles can help with stability. My own CJ5 has full size axles from a Dodge truck under it, but it is lifted and had been modified with off road travel in mind. I have to drive it much more carefully, and much slower, than my daily driver Mercury Marauder. Each vehicle is designed for a roll. The Marauder is fast and comfy, but only on the road. A CJ is slow and bouncy, (a lifted one even more so) but will take you on wonderful adventures in the wild. Were my Jeep a daily driver, I would have it in stock form. Axles changes are also very expensive and time consuming to get right.

My next suggestion is that if you do intend to lift it, wheel it. Go ahead and get involved with a group of off roaders in your area. They can help show you what you are missing by not going on adventures. They can (and often do) even help you wrench on your CJ. I've been helped by friends I met on off road facebook pages that I've gone wheeling and camping with. I'm also in a 4x4 club that is a registered not-for-profit organization. It is a bit more formal. We pay dues to belong, and go on wheeling adventures, but we also host a truck show every year and donate to charities. It's a good time with good people mostly.

By the way, that's a very nice looking CJ as she sits. Not my favorite wheels, sorry. I hate those Goodyear tires on the street, I have them on mine, can't wait til they wear out, but they do work well off road. I can understand you wanting to change your vehicle. I've never had a vehicle I didn't modify. Even my Marauder has a better sound system in it. Just don't forget that your rather nice looking CJ is not designed to drive as quickly on the road as a normal car. It's a laid back take your time type of ride. Enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

:ww:

Jeeps are top heavy and require some getting use to.
Look at maybe a 2 1/2-3" lift and a 1" body lift.
Also-Buy a copy of the REAL Factory Service Manual(FSM).
I much prefer BFG A/T over the M/T. The M/T is not a good rain tire. I had a set of M/T's, sold'em and with back to the A/T.
Before going to 33's. Find out what ring & pinion ratio you are run'n.
Also-I would go through that Jeep and change ALL the fluids and filters ASAP.
X2 on looking for a Jeep club in your area. Then you'll have a great source of info to use.
PLEASE-TAKE IT OUT AND WHEEL IT!
LG

 

[MikeAllen237]

Daddyusmaximus - thanks for your answer! I definitely plan to drive it like an old CJ and be careful on the road. It's not that I wont go hit some trails, I'm just not purchasing this as a trail rig. It's mostly to regain my man card on the weekend (I have to drive a Jetta all week for my day job! ha) and want to have a awesome trail rig and a classic car wrapped in one! As much as it might be more sensible to keep it stock, I didn't buy a 41 year old CJ to be sensible - haha! I will just drive it very carefully and hope the wider tires and rims help a bit. (Can always make other changes later!) Thanks for the compliment on the jeep - Don't worry I don't like the wheels either! I am looking to swap them with some of the American Racing Baja Wheels - has a nice throw back look to them! And probably going with a nice set of BFG's!

Lumpy Grits - Thank you for your response! I definitely plan to take this next week for a full inspection and fluid/filter job! I did just start looking online at some clubs down here in the Houston area! One Question - why do you recommend a suspension and body lift combo, instead of a straight suspension lift?

Thanks again for the input!!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

One Question - why do you recommend a suspension and body lift combo, instead of a straight suspension lift?

Thanks again for the input!!

Best of both worlds, and less driveline/driveshaft angle issues with the same tire clearance.
See the picture of my Jeep-That's what I did.

LG

 

[jzak]

In my humble opinion a 4 inch lift is overkill. I've got over a 3 inch lift kit, and its a pain to get in and out, not to mention the chances of you flipping it. As Lumpy Grits also mentioned, I heard you may run into drivetrain/driveline issues. If your planning on taking it to MOAB, then go with the lift, but as a weekend warrior vehicle around town with occasional trail use, there's no reason to do it. Besides, i think it looks damn good as it is!

 

[shum8]

Very nice CJ - Love the color

The CJ I bought already had a 4" suspension lift. Since I'm on a tight budget rebuild (I'm cheap) I'll leave it be till later on - and will go back to no more that a 2" or so. As for stability - driving a CJ (especially an NT setup) requires a whole nuther mindset...... no swerving - just hitting the brakes and gritting your teeth. Similar to riding a motorcycle, it makes you watch further out in front of you - spot the idiots before they spot you. I always liked the looks of a NT rig better, but they are less forgiving stability wise.

 

[JAE]

Another thing to keep in mind is that with the QuadraTrac you can't just swap in another axle. It has the rear output offset to the passenger side so you would née to either have a custom axle built or swap in a different Transfer Case all together.

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[Posi]

If it were me I would replace the rear 2 piece shaft to an upgraded one piece shaft. I've replaced a few spun stock shafts for guys that run mostly on road with 33" tires.
Inspect or replace if needed: ball joints, tie rod ends, and drag link end. Inspect the steering shaft and box.
Add a 2.5 lift, plenty of room in the wheel well for 33" being used on road only.
I have a friend running stock axles, and suspension with 32" tires (and aftermarket shackles) for the last 8-10 years. Yes, he is still running the 2 piece shafts but if it were me I go 1 piece.

I have a pic but the forum doesn't allow me to post pics from my photobucket account. To bad he has a real sweet Silver Anniversary CJ5 .

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Sorry for the hijack, but when someone says "2 piece shaft" are they referring to the two pieces that move at the slip joint, or the longer shafts with a carrier bearing? I can't imagine a short little CJ5 needing a carrier bearing. Mine doesn't have one and it works fine.

 

[shum8]

"2-piece shaft" = stock axle shaft keyed to wheel hub. The 1-piece shafts have axle and hub as a single piece. Yer thinkin of the wrong shaft


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[Posi]

2 piece

one piece

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Sorry for the hijack, but when someone says "2 piece shaft" are they referring to the two pieces that move at the slip joint, or the longer shafts with a carrier bearing? I can't imagine a short little CJ5 needing a carrier bearing. Mine doesn't have one and it works fine.

AMC20 rear diff used a 2 piece axle that consisted of a axle shaft and separate hub that was kept in place via a nut.
AMC 'bean counters' again in action.........
LG

 

[81CJ7WY]

Yes, a 4 inch lift is harder to get in and out of for an older guy. At least I assume your older as you just want to "cruise". My rough country 4inch measures more of a 5 inch and with boots, coats and winter gear on, getting in and out to pull cars out of the snow banks, its a real negative. 2.5 lift for what you are doing with it will make it match the tire size in my opinion, and what I wished I did with mine. the smaller the lift, the better street manners it will have.

Stability: while going 50 mph, I swerved once to see what it would do, there was a moment there where I thought the end was near. When my Son uses the Jeep, I tell him every time. Drive strait, and plan on hitting WHATEVER it is if you can't stop. Hope that gives you some insight.

Axles: when I removed my two piece they were in great condition. For cruising in town, there is no need to change to one piece, except if your having to change the bearing seal. Then its just s a good time and fun project to upgrade. And your seal will leak eventually.

Narrow trac. 12.5 tires will be close to your body. Even rub in turns unless you get rims with back spacing or spacers. I have narrow trac, stock rims, 33 by 12.5 and it looked goofy intill I add spacers. 2 inch or more, but then they have their own issues in using them. Consider new rims with your tires.

Gear ratios: I have the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l in great condition with 48k on it. On the highway with the lift, 33 by 12.5, and all, I maxed out at 55mph, uphill 40 mph. On a windy day, I took the car. That was with stock 2.56 gear ratio. Awful! Rear and front ratio you might consider changing to 3.91 or so. Google gear ratio charts. I put in 4.56 and it Max's out at 60mph screaming. But it's killer perfect for off road!

Ok, last item, with any lift your steering needs to be tight. Ball joint to the steering wheel. You want to spend some time on your Jeep? , consider new ball joints, steering knuckles, if they are not in excellent condition, and a steering shaft mod as the stock coupler will erode and cause play. When you lift your Jeep, expessially to 4 inch, any issues here will be augmented, and you'll find it wanders, bump steers, and drives squilry,

Drive it, enjoy what you have, heads will turn, its a CJ.

Thanks.

 

[MikeAllen237]

I really appreciate everybody's input - it's helping me learn a lot! I've gathered that with what I plan to use the CJ for, I can get by without going all out with axle swaps and whatnot. I will get wider tires and rims, drive it on road like a baby, and NEVER SWERVE!

81CJ7WY - I'm laughing, because I'm not old at all! haha. I'm only 36, although we marry early down here in Texas - so I've been married for over 12 years and have an 8 yr old and a 5 yr old. I say cruise around, because I travel a ton for work during the week, and spend my weekends doing my chores and driving kids too and from every sport possible. My daughter is on a path to be a gymnast in the 2014 Olympics So I don't have tons of free time to be traveling around and off-roading. So I just wanted it to be known, I'm not building a rock crawler and would be doing light trails here and there when I have town - but a lot of it will be putting around town and trying to turn a few heads

And yes - I am getting new rims along with the tires. I just left the tire shop, and with the 33x12.5 tires, I would pair it with a 15x10 wheels with a negative off set to stick them out a tad more. The guy had a old CJ as well, so seemed relatively knowledgeable about what I was trying to do.

Thanks again for all the information everybody - I've got some thinking to do as far as lifting. I was just referred to a really reputable CJ place down here in Houston, and I will be going to see them this weekend. Not completely ruling out the 4 inch suspension, as I didn't buy this CJ to be sensible - but to look and be cool! haha. But I will also consider and look into doing a 2.5 inch lift, or a 2.5 inch lift with 1 inch body.

Thanks again everybody!

 

[Posi]

If you have a 5 and 8 year old they will want to ride in your CJ. Kids love them. This is also a new purchase for you. That said, please take it to a shop to check all steering components and have them repair what is needed.

You have 2 really good reasons to go with a 2.5" lift over a 4" lift.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

"2-piece shaft" = stock axle shaft keyed to wheel hub. The 1-piece shafts have axle and hub as a single piece. Yer thinkin of the wrong shaft


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OK, had me confused. They didn't say "axle".

 

[daddyusmaximus]

My daughter is on a path to be a gymnast in the 2014 Olympics So I don't have tons of free time to be traveling around and off-roading.

Well, that was 2.5 years ago. It's over, so you should have lots of time now... lol.

 

[MikeAllen237]

You guys have all changed my plans, so thank you for speaking up and voicing your opinion! I wrote down 5-6 different things I will have the shop inspect and/or replace this weekend. And between the possible additional hassles of having a 4 inch lift, and safety concern ..... and when "Posi" uses my kids in the equation .... that makes it a no-brainer!

I just Googled pictures of CJ7s with a 2.5 inch suspension lift and 33 inch tires, and that is an fantastic look and exactly what I should do. Thank you to everybody again for the help and welcoming me to the CJ family!

 

[MikeAllen237]

Well, that was 2.5 years ago. It's over, so you should have lots of time now... lol.

Whoops - I meant 2024! Sorry - I am thinking more about my Jeep and less about my kiddos! haha