Possible SOA lift

[ttbiker]

Ok so I recently got my first CJ. Its a 1976 CJ7 and overall in really good shape. I am currently working on getting it running with an LT1 motor and th350 Transmission . I have some 33" tires for it and now need to think about the lift for them to fit. Currently the jeep has stock suspension and axles (3.54 gears).
Now I know there are issues with doing spring over, which I am definitely capable of addressing. I have all the cutting and welding equipment I'll need. This is primarily going to be an off road rig, and definitely not a daily driver. Although, it will of course be fun to drive around town sometimes, and not to mention driving to the trails is important. Since its mostly for off road use I figure the SOA is the best option for capability. The problem I see with the spring lifts is that in order to get lift they must be arched more. That means less articulation, stiffer, and more chance for the shackle to flip. I don't want it to have "casual offroad" capabilities. I want to be able to tackle some harsh stuff, including some crawling.
So, my real question is what do you think of the SOA lift? I do not want any body trimming. My initial budget is probably going to be around 1k to get the lift done. I will of course do other improvements as my funds build back up (I'm in a lot getting the drivetrain finished).
If you think the SOA will be a bad idea than what would you suggest? I would prefer suspension only lifts, not body lifts. Also worth mentioning, the wheels I have are 9" wide and 4.7" backspace, so fairly close to centerline. I can use some spidertrax style spacers if its not enough spacing. I'm picking up a used front axle this weekend that has disk brakes (another $300), and will be installing a dual vacuum booster with proper master cylinder. I don't plan on going bigger than 33" tires. I know most of you will think that's small for SOA, but kinda seems best for articulation and no rubbing.

I know that's a lot of information, but the jeeps are a lot different than old rangers I've built. So, I could definitely use some advice.

 

[Posi]

Although the link below is SOA for road use there will be some good tips.
https://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f19/anyone-who-has-soa-lift-30439/

 

[j6824]

Ok so I recently got my first CJ. Its a 1976 CJ7 and overall in really good shape. I am currently working on getting it running with an LT1 motor and th350 Transmission . I have some 33" tires for it and now need to think about the lift for them to fit. Currently the jeep has stock suspension and axles (3.54 gears).
Now I know there are issues with doing spring over, which I am definitely capable of addressing. I have all the cutting and welding equipment I'll need. This is primarily going to be an off road rig, and definitely not a daily driver. Although, it will of course be fun to drive around town sometimes, and not to mention driving to the trails is important. Since its mostly for off road use I figure the SOA is the best option for capability. The problem I see with the spring lifts is that in order to get lift they must be arched more. That means less articulation, stiffer, and more chance for the shackle to flip. I don't want it to have "casual offroad" capabilities. I want to be able to tackle some harsh stuff, including some crawling.
So, my real question is what do you think of the SOA lift? I do not want any body trimming. My initial budget is probably going to be around 1k to get the lift done. I will of course do other improvements as my funds build back up (I'm in a lot getting the drivetrain finished).
If you think the SOA will be a bad idea than what would you suggest? I would prefer suspension only lifts, not body lifts. Also worth mentioning, the wheels I have are 9" wide and 4.7" backspace, so fairly close to centerline. I can use some spidertrax style spacers if its not enough spacing. I'm picking up a used front axle this weekend that has disk brakes (another $300), and will be installing a dual vacuum booster with proper master cylinder. I don't plan on going bigger than 33" tires. I know most of you will think that's small for SOA, but kinda seems best for articulation and no rubbing.

I know that's a lot of information, but the jeeps are a lot different than old rangers I've built. So, I could definitely use some advice.

I'm in a similar boat as you, as I've just recently entertained the idea of redoing mine to SOA and have been reading everything I can get my hands on. That said, I'll throw in my $0.02, fwiw.

A grand will get you into one of the better sua kits offered for the CJ (BDS, RE). I went with the BDS two years ago. Several benefits with these type kits...for one, they're inclusive of all parts, save driveshafts and better shims (which you may or may not need). Max tire size for those is 33 for a 4" kit, sans trimming, so there's that. Straightforward install, especially for the first-timer.

As you mention, most that are looking to go soa are looking to run larger tires AND oftentimes wider axles. Even widetracs aren't that wide, especially at 4"+ of lift. That would entail outboarding the springs if you're going full width. Most soa kits involve a shackle reversal, which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms (unless you fab it up yourself, or go with the Dave's custom kit, which is the only one I'm aware of that's non-reversal). If you do the reversal, you'll probably be looking at an extended front shaft due to the front axle travel rearward. Then there's the ensuing axle wrap that will have to be addressed with a track bar.

The recurring theme I kept coming across while reading so many of these build threads over the last several months was...once you have a definitive idea about your desired usage... to start with the axles and work up.
The ones that are serious spend the money there, and they only spend it once.

Like you said, if you ask most folks in the know, the consensus will be that, for the amount of extra design and work involved, soa will be overkill for what you are looking to do.

I'll close with my opinion on one thing, regardless of which way you decide to go, and that would be to strongly consider a regear...especially if you're serious about crawling it. Mine's at 3.54 now with the same tire and it won't get out of it's own way.

BTW...I found this link particularly informative...a lot of good info here as well as the link to the thread from this site that Posi posted:

Spring Over Versus Spring Under - Jp Magazine

Good luck with the build

 

[jp360cj]

Steering, driveshafts, and possibly anti wrap will be where your money is.

Overall, I think the NT axles are narrower than I would want to be with SOA. With the 4.7" of backspacing and NT axles, you're probably going to need spacers to keep the tires out of the springs.

 

[ttbiker]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Doing a SUA lift will a 4" ensure that there is no clearance issues? Other than tire to spring while turning. Also the tires are not exactly 33", its metric size and more like 33.4" by 11.6". I do plan on wider axles later, but since there are no used options with passenger diff anywhere in my area I can only but crate axles. With a cost of 5-8K per axle it will be while before I can do that.
What would you do to mitigate the negatives of a heavy spring arch with SUA? I've driven a few jeeps lifted like that and honestly they were terrible. The springs were extremely stiff and did not like to give much at all, and due to the high arch they didn't have a lot of articulation.
Also the guy I'm getting my disc brake front axle from has a pair of wide tracks for $600. Would you do that instead of just getting the disk front axle? Even if the new axle has the weaker 5 bolt hubs?
Another thing worth noting, I was also planning on adding sway bars (with disconnects) if I do SOA.
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I do this right the first time.

 

[ttbiker]

Oh, I also forgot to mention I can build a shackled ladder bar myself for anti-wrap. I've done several back when I was building the rangers.

 

[j6824]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Doing a SUA lift will a 4" ensure that there is no clearance issues? Other than tire to spring while turning. Also the tires are not exactly 33", its metric size and more like 33.4" by 11.6". I do plan on wider axles later, but since there are no used options with passenger diff anywhere in my area I can only but crate axles. With a cost of 5-8K per axle it will be while before I can do that.
What would you do to mitigate the negatives of a heavy spring arch with SUA? I've driven a few jeeps lifted like that and honestly they were terrible. The springs were extremely stiff and did not like to give much at all, and due to the high arch they didn't have a lot of articulation.
Also the guy I'm getting my disc brake front axle from has a pair of wide tracks for $600. Would you do that instead of just getting the disk front axle? Even if the new axle has the weaker 5 bolt hubs?
Another thing worth noting, I was also planning on adding sway bars (with disconnects) if I do SOA.
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I do this right the first time.

I don't currently have any clearance issues nor tire on spring rub with mine as it is now, although i don't know exactly how much backspace i have, either...never measured it.

Most that are upgrading axles are building them or having them built...using boneyard housings and aftermarket components. I don't believe there are many guys dropping that kind of coin (particularly on these old rigs, versus coilovers and link setups) on crate axles. That said, there is both the necessary knowledge to consider, not to mention the tools regarding axle building. You have the welding capability, which is a big part of it. Local shops, wheeling clubs/wrenching parties, sites such as this one and YouTube are all valuable resources at your disposal.

There is a trade off with either setup. The simplicity and straightforwardness of sua versus the added complexity and additional expense of soa.

The wide tracs are certainly an option. If you truly plan to push it and wheel it hard, though...and you want to do it right and only once.

In the end it all comes down to time, $, skills and purpose.

And desire. Like anything else. How much do you want it, and how long are you willing to wait?

Like I said, I'm in the same boat. I don't have the skills, knowledge or tools. But I want to learn, and I'm willing to wait, acquire the tools and parts and chip away at it with help from others who do know.

 

[ttbiker]

So I might be changing what I want to do for fitting those tires. I recently looked at some pictures of a CJ7 with TJ fender flares, and it looks real good. So now my question is how much spring lift would be necessary to get the 33" tires fitting along with TJ flares?
Is it possible the 33's would fit without the spring lift, and just the cut fenders?
This seems like a good compromise, softer springs for better ride and flex, but not having the issues of SOA. I was originally against cutting because I thought it would look pretty bad, but I've seen otherwise now.

 

[j6824]

So I might be changing what I want to do for fitting those tires. I recently looked at some pictures of a CJ7 with TJ fender flares, and it looks real good. So now my question is how much spring lift would be necessary to get the 33" tires fitting along with TJ flares?
Is it possible the 33's would fit without the spring lift, and just the cut fenders?
This seems like a good compromise, softer springs for better ride and flex, but not having the issues of SOA. I was originally against cutting because I thought it would look pretty bad, but I've seen otherwise now.

The max tire size (BDS) for the 2-1/2" kit is 32...the 4" kit will accommodate 33s

The OME kit will fit up to 31s. Great reviews...pretty flexy. Might be worth a look with 1" bl pucks

 

[PistolDave]

I used OME heavy duty YJ 2.5" lift springs all around

https://www.morris4x4center.com/old-man-emu-yj-rear-heavy-leaf-spring-2-lift-omecs036r.html

on my 83 CJ7 with shackles that are more or less stock YJ length at 4.25" pin to pin. I also have a 3/4" body lift with urethane bushings and I clear 33x10.5x15 BFG KM3's no problem. I rides very smooth, and articulates well, I am very happy with these springs.

This jeep has a very heavy rear bumper/tire carrier, plus the hardtop, plus tools and cooler in the back, and sits about 3/4 lower in the rear loaded this way. Still did not have any clearance or rubbing issues even loaded this way. Picture is from last years
Ouray/Silverton trip.