PS done but not so great

PS done but not so great
existentialhandyman

existentialhandyman

Jeeper
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57
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14
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Location
Northern Michigan
Vehicle(s)
1966 CJ6 Tuxedo Park Mark IV, 225 v6 3 spd on the floor, Front axel dana 27A, single lever 2 spd transfer
TPM4 CJ6a has PS, Saginaw steering gear ID'ed to be a buick donor and the pump is a hellatious leaker.
Decent fabrication from what I can tell but first Jeep so not quite sure.
Sits above the frame not behind it like the AA style and they whacked the grill to do it, steering shaft actually runs through it.
Since it is a 225 v6 and the heater stays - 2 issues, well 3.
1. What to do about leaking bastardized manifold on the drivers bank and does the AA setup help with this for clearance. I saw Herb's earlier and Im not sure mounting steering unit behind the cross member would work here.
2. is PS really THAT much better ? or should I consider
a. manual Saginaw and from what donor.
b. go back to a stock Ross system - most posts seem to say heck NO here.
3. a better suggestion.
 
My thoughts on power steering: I will pass, on power steering and power brakes, they only work when the motor is running. A trip up a hill is exciting, a trip down a hill in more exciting, a trip down a hill backwards can be a bit scary and a trip backwards with no steering or brakes because the motor died can be down right terrifying. Some will tell you that they work as well as regular steering and brakes when the motor is not running and I do not believe that is the case. This , of course is my observation and opinion.:cool:


existentialhandyman said:
TPM4 CJ6a has PS, Saginaw steering gear ID'ed to be a buick donor and the pump is a hellatious leaker.
Decent fabrication from what I can tell but first Jeep so not quite sure.
Sits above the frame not behind it like the AA style and they whacked the grill to do it, steering shaft actually runs through it.
Since it is a 225 v6 and the heater stays - 2 issues, well 3.
1. What to do about leaking bastardized manifold on the drivers bank and does the AA setup help with this for clearance. I saw Herb's earlier and Im not sure mounting steering unit behind the cross member would work here.
2. is PS really THAT much better ? or should I consider
a. manual Saginaw and from what donor.
b. go back to a stock Ross system - most posts seem to say heck NO here.
3. a better suggestion.
Click to expand...
 
My take on your steering. I would prefer a correctly functioning original Ross system over ANY other type of hacked installation. That said a well done saginaw type system would be a nice addition if your not interested in originality.
As for the loss of steering when the engine dies, my experience is it only becomes more difficult to turn the wheel and this is due in my opinion to the gearbox ratio's. The manual box gear ratio favors the driver at the expense of having to turn the wheel more revolutions to get the vehicle to turn.
 
read your posts all over this site & lordy, you guys are really prolific, on target, knowledgable and genuinely note common sense. How refreshing and AWESOME.
This being my first Jeep - seemingly original including most of the chrome, very few body adaptations.....my inclination (and Dad's teachings) is to keep it as stock as possible. Don't wanna fup it here.
Is this "stock"issue really a big deal amongst Jeepers?
Given that it was one of 160 made (146 according to some of my research) and I plan to keep it 'till I cant get into it anymore and then move it on to kids - that issue is WAY down the road.
 
The only person concerned with how original it is will be you, Not many Jeep collectors out there to worry about that. I like the original aspect myself BUT if you plan on wheeling the thing you will find things you will want to change then it starts snowballing on you. $$
 
Yep, it's yours you do what you want with it. At this point I think my biggest guide line is "If I am going to change something I am going to do a good job of it."
There are things about my jeep that I think I can improve, there will be things you become aware of as well.
:cool:
 
A lot of people out there do not understand how to apply the correct parts to something like a jeep, that will make it function correctly.
It sounds to me like you have a badly fabricated steering system.
If you are very mildly offroading and mostly street driving? great make it manual or bell crank again. But I have had many mountain repairs on bell crank steering. AND I took a guy out of the mountains for a broken arm from manual steering when the wheel bump spun counter clockwise!
If you want the power steering to work decent when the engine is not running. Use a fast ratio power steering box!
 
I modified my 67s ross system a bit
I added a tie rod to the axle and use only one drag link, it works great.

the biggest problem is finding the ross parts in good shape however. If your system is set up for Saginaw and all is wrong is the steering box leaking, get a manual steering box and use that. it should be a easy fix.:)
 
pump leaks not the box =assume fixable. I really wonder about the geometry & ? now what else do I have to fabricate (ex.manis,firewall, etc) to correct issues.
I picked up manifolds from a 231 and it ain't gonna work on the drvs side bank.
PO cut & welded(kinda) existing to center drop for clearance(mod= leaker).
Irks me - that when folks cannot do a good job, they opt do a poop one.
 
we have a thread around here somewhere called THE PO DID WHAT
maybe this is a case for that
at this point replace the pump. power steering is nice, you can always get put it to manual if you want later
as far as the manifolds, I run headers on my 225s so cannot answer that.
 
Thoughts on running a header on that bank and not on the other?
Aside from the 'how it looks' issue, are there back-pressure/other issues if one doesn't do both or do I have my noggin completely up my backside with this thought process?
Both manifolds were whacked and rewelded = current leaks = failure.
(I got a set of 231's that are real nice.)
Will sit down tonight or tomorrow and figger out how to upload pics.
Thanks again.
 
pics for saginaw steering to add some spice to the discussions.

more coming
 
Last edited:
pics for saginaw steering to add some spice to the discussions.
hope these clear up the lack of info prob.
uploaded same photos - ????? very long day - will try to do better tmw.
 
Last edited:
If it were me I would cut everything PO added OFF and start over. No small project to be sure but I could not live with that.
 
Sasquach said:
If it were me I would cut everything PO added OFF and start over. No small project to be sure but I could not live with that.
Click to expand...
not what I wanted to hear and exactly what I needed to hear....DOG Dang.
OK, you and, others have expressed opinions both ways. I'd like to get it up and running as soon as I can possibly do it or I'm gonna end up putting the cash into the old burbalade.
As this will be a DD with little rock climbing activity (git skaert to easy) -probably not gonna the opportunity to get her back to Telluride, Bridial Veil pass or Ophir pass any time soon ( but dang ya never know)
I like to start from
a. safest
b. best option for the "potential" money
c. easiest ? -
looked through literally - hundreds - of posts in the past 48 hrs.. am inclined to go saginaw NON-power with the AA mount.
Not having done much with any steering in the past, would welcome thought or posts concerning - the "easier" path to a better outcome/rework?
Adage: do everything twice it takes twice as long.
 
Sasquach said:
If it were me I would cut everything PO added OFF and start over. No small project to be sure but I could not live with that.
Click to expand...

yep
basically, just remount the gear lower on the frame
I think the lower shaft can stay, put headers on.

just when you think you've seen them all......

take a look here, and see how most folks are installing the steering gear.
fella by the name of McRuff was making box mounts and spud shafts
the more time you spend researching and looking at photos, the easier it will become for you to visualize what needs to be done.

http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?17911-Saginaw-power-steering-(pics)-please-add-yours!!
 
AMEN - the research is very calming with all the spurts notes and anecdotes. 8-}

Left handers KNOW the difference between right and correct!!
 
Looked all over this site and other means - seem to need help.... where /how do I find,get ahold of McRuff? for parts to remount box.
 
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