Reverse Shackles

[kickitandholdit]

Can I get a description and an explanation of the pros and cons please

 

[jeepy]

They are over-rated.

The general idea of a reversal is nice, as your axle would smoothly flow over bumps, and also track nicely because it is sort of being pulled by the springs instead of being pushed.

So people make the change in hopes of fixing their steering problems. You can get equally good results just by fixing the actual problems with the steering and maybe adding some caster.

If you off-road alot, reversing your shackles may require you to make a longer slip joint in your front driveshaft.

Some people also experience front brake dive after they do a reversal.
I've seen folks do a shackle reversal, and then un-install it.

 

[mylittlecj5]

I like mine.
The PO didn't install it 'correctly', but after I tweaked it some, it works very well.
The ride is definitely better than a stock CJ, although some of that I am sure comes from the SoftRide springs. I can run at 80+ on the freeway with very little wander. But those 35x12.50 Super Swampers contribute there, I'm sure! LOL
As for off road-ability. it does very well. I have more trouble with the wrong gears in it than anything with the steering.

 

[BusaDave9]

Normally the shackles for the front springs are at the front of the springs. A shackle reversal moves the shackles to the rear of the springs.
This topic comes up every few months on this site. Check out this link:
http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f19/shackle-reversal-kits-5258/
Here is what I had to say:

Yes this is a hotly debated topic and since everyone has a right to my opinion I will put my two cents in. If you don't have much of a lift and the leaf springs don't have much arch to them then a shackle reversal wont' make much difference. But if you have a lift the front axle will move back quite a bit as you go over bumps. For that reason you will need a long travel drive shaft. I have a shackle reversal from the previous owner and this has caused quite a few problems. My drive shaft was bottoming out and banging into my transfer case. I had my drive shaft replaced with one with a long travel slip joint. It still bottomed out and I replaced it a 2nd time with one with 8 inches of usable travel (more than enough). The front tires were also smashing into my fender and I had to do a lot of metal cutting to resolve that.

In the above picture my tire is pressing into my inner fender. If I were to turn my wheel to the right it would press very hard into my nerf bar.
Although I already cut my front fenders before the above picture was taken I had to cut them some more. The nerf bars had to go. I then got rock sliders.
Here is a more recent photo.

You can see that the front tire moves far to the rear as the suspension compresses. This is the biggest problem with a shackle reversal and why I to make other modifications to keep my jeep from damaging itself going over bumps.

 

[the chief]

I like mine.
The PO didn't install it 'correctly', but after I tweaked it some, it works very well.
The ride is definitely better than a stock CJ, although some of that I am sure comes from the SoftRide springs. I can run at 80+ on the freeway with very little wander. But those 35x12.50 Super Swampers contribute there, I'm sure! LOL
As for off road-ability. it does very well. I have more trouble with the wrong gears in it than anything with the steering.

You drive your CJ over 80 mph? ....braver than me!

 

[mylittlecj5]

You drive your CJ over 80 mph? ....braver than me!

LOL in short bursts anyways! I haven't had a working speedo in the CJ for quite a while.
I was following some friends out to a trail last year and realized that they were leaving me behind, so I throttled it up and caught up to them. I looked at my GPS unit as I did, and it was reading 82 MPH. I didn't know the old CJ would go that fast, much less track like it was a newer truck!

 

[CJim7]

As was already said, a SRS will improve the ride by allowing the axle to work with rather then against the mass of the Jeep as the springs compress. This is most evident at speed. The downside (as was mentioned) is nose diving during braking and a little more front-end lean during turns if you are not running a swaybar.
Some SRS systems move your axle forward slightly. Driveline may need to be modified.

The downside offroad is during descent, you can experience the same nose dive you get during braking. This can be unnerving as you are navigating down a steep incline. Under certain situations, SRS can cause wheel hop under torque...specifically hill climbs. I've also seen a traction loss on large rocks at off camber situations. the suspension would compress back causing something similiar to wheel hop. The same thing that makes a CJ bumpy as hell on the road (front shackles) also provides positive force down on the suspension during approach and climbing...providing greater traction.

All that being said, I would not do a SRS unless my CJ was a pavement pounder only.

 

[73CJ]

http://www.jeeptech.com/susp/elkcahs/

Best article I've seen on SRS. I've seen way more done poorly than correctly.

I like mine and don't mind the nose dive. I not trying to fool the HP watching for nose dive with speeders.

Reduces wander.

8" travel on the front drive shaft.

Wheel hop usually comes with too much power being applied. Foot control required.

 

[jeepy]

There you have it. A whole list of problems from all of those posts. If you are lucky, and you handle all of those problems, when you are done you will have a vehicle that works just as well as a correctly set up original shackle forward system........

 

[CJim7]

Wheel hop usually comes with too much power being applied. Foot control required.

Correct. BUT...wheel hop can be caused by the terrain and a suspension that does not keep the tires to the ground, and this is why, it's simple physics...

Losing traction under power most generally causes wheelhop in the rear. It happens because the axle is moving away from the force being applied to it. This causes less pressure to the ground which causes seperation between the tire and the surface. The front (in a normal settup) doesn't see wheelhop because the axle is moving towards that force...and providing positive pressure to the ground surface. Switch the shackles around and you duplicate the rear axle characteristics up front.

A very simple way to test this is to go down a washboard dirt road. You'll notice the rearend wants to take off (fishtail) before the frontend does. That's because of the behavior of the shackle settup in the rear vs. the front. It is essentially wheel hop produced by lack of traction created by the axle unable to maintain positive down pressure because it wants to go back instead of forward. The opposite is occuring in the frontend and the forward motion of the axle helps keep positive pressure on the road.

Front shackles make for a nastier ride, but there are benefits to it. Just as there are with a SRS in different situations.

Certain situations such as hill climbs often require the use of throttle, and wheelspin (breaking traction) can be expected from time to time. That is not the ideal situation to start producing front wheel hop...which can and does happen with an SRS. I've seen it a few to many times.

The SRS was never designed as an offroad enhancement. Strictly for onroad comfort and handeling.

 

[cjshan]

I was thinkin about a reverse but read the response and decided to remove 2 of the leaf springs and it did alot for smoothing out the ride which is why you would do a reversal + its free. Thankx

 

[kickitandholdit]

There you have it. A whole list of problems from all of those posts. If you are lucky, and you handle all of those problems, when you are done you will have a vehicle that works just as well as a correctly set up original shackle forward system........

 

[CJKrawler]

This topic does come up quite often, so I have been looking at other trucks out there the have front leafs. From what I have seen, they all have the shackle at the back. Toyota, Ford, Chevy. I don't see why, with a little forethought, you should drop the idea so quickly. Any time a design is brought out, there are always improvements, except the mouse trap. I plan on doing one on mine, and Busa has been a big help on things to watch out for.

 

[73CJ]

There you have it. A whole list of problems from all of those posts. If you are lucky, and you handle all of those problems, when you are done you will have a vehicle that works just as well as a correctly set up original shackle forward system........

Not just as well, but better.

There must have been something lacking from the factory - they should have offered 38" tires, 4" lift and body lifts. Darn, they didn't so some of us have improved on the basic vehicle offered by Jeep and made them better.

I don't remember them offering a CJ5 stretched to 98 inches. SOA. Dana 44 's, Lockers, 350 TPI, Hydro assist steering, 4 wheel disc either.

Running a SOA is silly to even think of running down the highway. No wonder you don't like SRS.

 

[CJim7]

I don't remember them offering a CJ5 stretched to 98 inches. SOA. Dana 44 's, Lockers, 350 TPI, Hydro assist steering, 4 wheel disc either.

Man...I wish they had :drool:

 

[jeepy]

Not just as well, but better.

There must have been something lacking from the factory - they should have offered 38" tires, 4" lift and body lifts. Darn, they didn't so some of us have improved on the basic vehicle offered by Jeep and made them better.

I don't remember them offering a CJ5 stretched to 98 inches. SOA. Dana 44 's, Lockers, 350 TPI, Hydro assist steering, 4 wheel disc either.

Running a SOA is silly to even think of running down the highway. No wonder you don't like SRS.

Thought we were done with this one; but ok.
Since you brought it up; My SOA CJ runs and drives off and ON the street way better than AMC ever dreamed of! That is just another thing that kind've proves my point. Even with my evil home-brew SOA, plenty of my other hackwork, and the ancient design of forward front shackles, it drives straight as an arrow even at high speeds. No wandering. No bumpsteer. Why? because the steering and alignment are set up at least somewhat correctly.
So you see, if you do it at least halfway right, preferrably all the way right, you don't have to spend your valuable time and hard earned dollars engineering a problem free shackle reversal.

 

[kickitandholdit]

This topic does come up quite often, so I have been looking at other trucks out there the have front leafs. From what I have seen, they all have the shackle at the back. Toyota, Ford, Chevy. I don't see why, with a little forethought, you should drop the idea so quickly. Any time a design is brought out, there are always improvements, except the mouse trap. I plan on doing one on mine, and Busa has been a big help on things to watch out for.

"except the mouse trap"