spring change...maybe????

[surfbum]

OK, here's what I just found on my '79 CJ. I have her jacked up still and I got the frame fixed up. I ordered the 3" BDS lift, only to find out it is on backorder until next Friday. That's ok, so I just figured I'd get everything ready to go. I pulled the front wheels and noticed "Damn those springs look narrow compared to the rear. So I broke out the tape measure and the camera and came to the guys I know can help me. I'll post some pics in the morning because I don't have the program on this computer. Here are the measurements I got. The front springs measure 2" across, the front shackle mounts (the eyes bolted to the frame under the bumper)measure 2" across and the spring mount for the back of my front springs measures 3" ID. The shackles are bent in at the top and bottom, I guess to make the tight ?(I don't know what the PO was thinking) THe rear springs measure 2.5" across and the frame shackle eyes (under the rear bumper) measure 2.5" also. The spring hanger welded to the frame for the front of the rear spring measures 3" just the same as the one for the front springs. I'm guessing I have YJ springs on the rear and CJ springs on the front????? I'm going to cancel my order for the lift kit until I can find out what I need to do here. HELP !!!

 

[Petescj]

Whoa hold the phone. Cjs have 2 in in front and 2.5 in the rear. Your ok relax take a deep breath.

 

[Petescj]

That meaning the front are 2in wide or across and the rear are 2.5 wide or acrodss. Its normal.

 

[surfbum]

AHHHH. I was able to get the pics to upload. I tried to take pics that I thought would show the most. The freshly painted one are the rears. I have been working on the back of the jeep for a couple of weeks now. Thanks again guys

 

[surfbum]

You just made my night....LOL
Next rounds on me !!!!!

 

[surfbum]

From the looks of the shackles, I guess I better replace them. I just got to the front tonight. I was spending all my time welding the rear frame up and just got to the front tonight. I have no clue what the shackles are. They measure 5" eye to eye on the bolts and I don't know what stock ones measure. Thanks again Pete

 

[Petescj]

I understand why you freaked. I wasnt ready for it myself when I first noticed. Good choice of springs in BDS. You wont be dissapointed. As for the shackles they arent stock. They look like con-fer maybe? Beefier than stock , but Im not sure if their lift ones or not. If they are its only slight like 1/2 in. Measure them from the center of the top bolt to the center of the bottom. Then I'll measure the con - fer ones I have.

 

[Petescj]

Posted at the same time. I'll measure and be right back

 

[Petescj]

Quick measurement of mine center to center puts it at 4 in. For every in. more than that equates to 1/2 in. of lift. If yours are 5 then they are 1/2 in. lift shackles. My rear shackle width is 4 in. Front is 3.5. Hope this helps.

 

[fishinfool98]

My 1 in lift shackles measure out at 4 1/2 inches center to center on the bolt holes

So im thinking they are 1 1/2 lift on yours

COuld be wrong

 

[surfbum]

That was a BIG help!! Thanks. I'm going to start tearing into the front end tonight. I need to replace the adjusting sleeve on the tie rod. Both ends look real good. The joints are tight and the boots aren't chewed up, but the sleeve is so rusted I don't know how it didn't break yet. Glad I had it flatbedded to my place. I got an email this morning saying Superlift is now looking at 3 or 4 weeks to ship my springs. I just installed new SS brake lines on the rear, and now going to do the fronts. I know from my previous Jeep that a 4" lift involves cutting and sleeving the tie rod ends, relocating the brakelines, dropping the tf case, and installing the dropped pitman arm. So I was going to go with a 2.5" lift to keep from having to do all that, but read all the good things you guys are saying about the BDS lift (and saw the pics of CJ's new springs ). I called Superlift, but got conflicting answers from 2 different tech guys. What, if any mods do you guys recommend for the 3" BDS lift? Dropped steering arm, ect ??? It falls right between the 2.5" and the 4". Also, do you think I would make out ok straightening my shackles (the ones in the pics) and using them with the BDS lift? I could put them in the vise and use the BIG adjustable wrench to persuade them to be straight again. Obviously the PO overtightened them.
The jeep also has a 1" body lift. She's got 31's now and I'm shooting for 33" BFG MT's. Thanks again !!!

 

[surfbum]

DUH.... I forgot to ask, Are my front shackles mounted upside down? The rears are 1 way and the fronts are the other ??? LOL

 

[coldwater]

Fronts need to be turned. Someone really abused their judgement when they tighened them down. They need to be able to swing pretty easily against the bushings.

 

[CJ]

What, if any mods do you guys recommend for the 3" BDS lift? Dropped steering arm, ect ???

I bought a dropped pitman arm just in case I need it but many use a 3" lift with the stock steering parts. The arm isn't that expensive and I wanted to see what the steering geometry looked like with and without it.

I am flipping my steering to the top of the knuckles so that will move the rods up considerably. I would see what yours looks like with just the 3" lift if you go with that.

 

[surfbum]

THanks for all your help. My springs won't be here until next week, and I've got work to do on the front end too. Let me know what you decide to do about the steering arm CJ... I'll probably do the same with mine.

 

[CJ]

Surfbum, you need to evaluate your arm when you get your kit. I'm flipping my tie rods over to the top of the knuckle so my setup is going to be different. Unless you do the same, my measurements really won't be close. I'm using the flip kit from Rock Equipment. -->> Rock Equipment

 

[coldwater]

CJ's application and your are apples and oranges. CJ's route to essentially lift his steering components with his suspension will drastically reduce his draglink angle. The standard lift you propose will lift the suspension, and leave the steering in it's stock orientation. You need to nail down how much lift you want / need, and how you want to achieve it. Rule of thumb is, a 4" lift will sufficeinty mess with your steering that you will need a dropped pitman arm. Bad enough on a 7, but on a 5 It's horrendous. In my opinion, anything over 2.5" will start to mess with your steering, and at 3" you should actually "feel" it. Bump steer is no joke, and can and will cause loss of control of your Jeep, so be careful when you do the deal. Another very basic rule of thumb, is that your drag link should be as parrallel to your tie rod as possible.

 

[projectcrawler]

If you are waiting for the springs anyway, look into buying a yj lift. A lot of people use the yjs because the fronts are as wide as the rears and offer a little more stable ride up front. This site offers some stuff to do it. Wrangler spring conversion kit for Jeep CJ

 

[surfbum]

Thanks for all your advice. I am going to order the dropped steering arm today, along with my poly bushings for the sway bar and frame bushings for my shackles. Coldwater, I will measure the angles with and without the dropped steering arm and go with the setup that puts them at the best angle in relation to each other. Do you think I should also drop the sway bar? If so, should I add a piece of solid stock where it bolts to the frame and then mount the stock brackets using longer grade 8 bolts, or section and lengthen the end links with heavy wall tubing? How much? I know Superlift recommends 3.5" longer end links for their 4" lift, but no change for the 2.5". Since my 3" lift will fall in the middle, I was thinking 2" longer on the end links or a piece of 2" stock. What do you guys think? I weld here at work, and have full access to the machine shop. I can and have done both before, but figured I'd get your opinions. Thanks

 

[coldwater]

Thanks for all your advice. I am going to order the dropped steering arm today, along with my poly bushings for the sway bar and frame bushings for my shackles. Coldwater, I will measure the angles with and without the dropped steering arm and go with the setup that puts them at the best angle in relation to each other. Do you think I should also drop the sway bar? If so, should I add a piece of solid stock where it bolts to the frame and then mount the stock brackets using longer grade 8 bolts, or section and lengthen the end links with heavy wall tubing? How much? I know Superlift recommends 3.5" longer end links for their 4" lift, but no change for the 2.5". Since my 3" lift will fall in the middle, I was thinking 2" longer on the end links or a piece of 2" stock. What do you guys think? I weld here at work, and have full access to the machine shop. I can and have done both before, but figured I'd get your opinions. Thanks

Remember, It is only spring lift that will cause the steering angles. not body lift. So It will depend on how much spring you put under your CJ. You may want to wait and get the lift installed before you drop coin on a new pitman arm. As far as the sway bar goes, If you do much off roading you may want to considder quick discos. If not, then simply cutting the stock connects and welding in a length of black pipe a couple of inches longer will be fine, but cut the pipe full length to fit over the links and weld it to the eye. Up to you, but since you have the suspension out, you may want to considder replacing the stock spring hangers. They are pretty weak to start with, and have a habit of breaking.