Starting problems

[Nightpath]

Vehicle year is 1985, it has the Inline 6 with all Motorcraft ignition components.

I adjusted the timing a few weeks ago, ride was running smooth. Randomly died on me in the heavy rains that we had a few weeks ago (engine, electrical all died), but I was able to get it going again. Got it home, no problems. Got to work the next day without a hitch and it refused to start when I was leaving. After a couple of hours it started back up. I attributed it old spark plugs, which I changed out and it seemed to run great.

Kicked the bucket again the next day. I thought maybe my timing was screwed up, so I reset back to TDC via a way I found on the internet (remove #1 plug, rotate engine till pulley mark meets on the proper line, then rotate oil pump notch fully clockwise, facing the engine it's in the 11oclock position, check to see if rotor matches #1 plug on cap for TDC).

Changed to the mechanical carter and it was running really nice, drove it around (good mileage). I reset to TDC to ensure the best performance, then adjusted it a tad. It ran great. Next morning I decided to go to the gym. I had the same problem when I tried to leave, so I checked the wiring, it seemed that a wire on the coil was bad so I ripped it out and fixed it, car drove but it chugged all the way home. When I got home the car died again.

I checked the timing, appeared fine. I'm still getting spark, replaced the distributor with a working one, ICM works, coil is good. Checked out all the electrical with a test light (clamp on negative, turn car to run, please test light on yellow wire [removed from coil], check for light, then crank, check for light, repeat on + side of battery on green coil wire [removed from coil). Found my starter solenoid was dead so I replaced that to boot.

It just doesn't want to start. Turns over like a champ, got fuel, got spark...just no ignition.

Any ideas where to look? I really don't want to peel the front off to see if the timing has jumped. Too cold and I've never done it before, but if I have to I will. I'm pretty frustrated at the moment, especially with 3 buyers wanting it.

edit : Going to swap out the spark plugs tomorrow, as well as attach the lines directly to the coil instead of with the cap.

 

[73CJ]

Well as long as you have the plugs out check the compression. You might see ajumped chain

 

[tarry99]

Vehicle year is 1985, it has the Inline 6 with all Motorcraft ignition components.

I adjusted the timing a few weeks ago, ride was running smooth. Randomly died on me in the heavy rains that we had a few weeks ago (engine, electrical all died), but I was able to get it going again. Got it home, no problems. Got to work the next day without a hitch and it refused to start when I was leaving. After a couple of hours it started back up. I attributed it old spark plugs, which I changed out and it seemed to run great.

Kicked the bucket again the next day. I thought maybe my timing was screwed up, so I reset back to TDC via a way I found on the internet (remove #1 plug, rotate engine till pulley mark meets on the proper line, then rotate oil pump notch fully clockwise, facing the engine it's in the 11oclock position, check to see if rotor matches #1 plug on cap for TDC).

Changed to the mechanical carter and it was running really nice, drove it around (good mileage). I reset to TDC to ensure the best performance, then adjusted it a tad. It ran great. Next morning I decided to go to the gym. I had the same problem when I tried to leave, so I checked the wiring, it seemed that a wire on the coil was bad so I ripped it out and fixed it, car drove but it chugged all the way home. When I got home the car died again.

I checked the timing, appeared fine. I'm still getting spark, replaced the distributor with a working one, ICM works, coil is good. Checked out all the electrical with a test light (clamp on negative, turn car to run, please test light on yellow wire [removed from coil], check for light, then crank, check for light, repeat on + side of battery on green coil wire [removed from coil). Found my starter solenoid was dead so I replaced that to boot.

It just doesn't want to start. Turns over like a champ, got fuel, got spark...just no ignition.

Any ideas where to look? I really don't want to peel the front off to see if the timing has jumped. Too cold and I've never done it before, but if I have to I will. I'm pretty frustrated at the moment, especially with 3 buyers wanting it.

edit : Going to swap out the spark plugs tomorrow, as well as attach the lines directly to the coil instead of with the cap.

You say it has spark but no Ignition???? where is the spark? At the plug? If it's at the plug then in fact you do have Ignition.

I would again roll the motor back up to TDC..........easy way......
Key Off.......pull #1 Plug and take a short piece of fuel line that will cover the spark hole at the cylinder head.........put your thumb over the other end and slowly turn the motor over. When it's on the compression stroke it will or should create enough air pressure to move your thumb off the end
( you need to creep up on it).........Stop look at your timing marks and front hub on the front cover.......should be either side of the TDC mark depending on how quickly you stoped........take a breaker bar and rotate the front hub and set it at about 10 degrees before TDC..........pull the cap. Is it on #1 or coming up to #1 about 10 degrees away? If its close then readjust the distributor so the rotor and cap line up. It should start..........if the marks are way off and your sure you did not go beyond them while rolling the motor over then the timing chain has in fact jumped.

Most electrical problems can be traced to a BAD Ground. make sure all of your ignition is properly grounded.........if you suspect the key switch hook a jumper from the coil directly to the + side of the battery and try again.......Of course the motor will not turn off until the jumper is removed.
Good Luck!

 

[Nightpath]

It turns over like a champ, getting spark, but the engine just won't start.

If we get a break in this snowstorm hitting the east coast right now I'll go back out and redo the timing as you suggested.

At this point I think the timing may have jumped, or there's a bad plug wire. Either way it's frustrating!

 

[tarry99]

It turns over like a champ, getting spark, but the engine just won't start.

If we get a break in this snowstorm hitting the east coast right now I'll go back out and redo the timing as you suggested.

At this point I think the timing may have jumped, or there's a bad plug wire. Either way it's frustrating!

Does it have fuel?

You can check the plug wires via a simple resistance test with an Ohm meter.

 

[Nightpath]

Getting fuel, and I checked my wires a while ago with my dmm but not lately.

 

[alpha6]

The fact the problem started when it would get wet leads me to believe you have a ground or electrical problem...possibly water getting under the distro cap. Have you check it for cracks and made sure it is dry under the cap?

 

[Nightpath]

It has a replacement distributor, coil and ICM. I followed the instructions of TeamRush in another thread to check if they are good...they show good.

I'm almost betting that my engine has those nylon teeth and it skipped. There's absolutely no way it's electrical now, I've added several new grounds, cleaned the old ones as well and verified integrity.

Just got to figure how to pull the front off to check timing

 

[tarry99]

It has a replacement distributor, coil and ICM. I followed the instructions of TeamRush in another thread to check if they are good...they show good.

I'm almost betting that my engine has those nylon teeth and it skipped. There's absolutely no way it's electrical now, I've added several new grounds, cleaned the old ones as well and verified integrity.

Just got to figure how to pull the front off to check timing

Before you pull the front cover off..........do like I mentioned above :
You need to establish TDC on #1 cylinder..........that alone will tell you if in fact it has jumped or your distributor has been put back in the wrong location.

 

[Nightpath]

I was out checking it out today, fiddled a bit with the distributor. Tried starting it up and got a bit of a backfire from the carb (and a bit of fire). Pulled all the plugs, I noticed #1 spark plug's electrode at the tip was distorted.

Ideas on this?

 

[tarry99]

I was out checking it out today, fiddled a bit with the distributor. Tried starting it up and got a bit of a backfire from the carb (and a bit of fire). Pulled all the plugs, I noticed #1 spark plug's electrode at the tip was distorted.

Ideas on this?

Did you re-establish TDC? That is the most important thing you need to do.
A Backfire out of the carb tells me it is out of time.
An electrode tip bent is of no consequence.....you have bigger fish to fry!

 

[Nightpath]

Going to be getting back out in the next few days (on night shift right now, bleh). Anyways, can someone direct me on how to properly set timing? I found a way in my Jeep Haynes manual (for a newer model engine though) but I want to know how you guys do it, just in case setting it is a bit different for the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . I'm at a point now where I think that the timing is way off or skipped and that is causing my no-start issue.

I know you mentioned using the hose and feeling for compression, which I'm going to give a go, but I'm getting conflicting reports on how to set the distributor. I had to pull it because part needed replacing, and a friend that was over decided to rotate the engine so the pulley mark met the TDC mark and I think this is where I started having problems.

 

[tarry99]

Going to be getting back out in the next few days (on night shift right now, bleh). Anyways, can someone direct me on how to properly set timing? I found a way in my Jeep Haynes manual (for a newer model engine though) but I want to know how you guys do it, just in case setting it is a bit different for the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . I'm at a point now where I think that the timing is way off or skipped and that is causing my no-start issue.

I know you mentioned using the hose and feeling for compression, which I'm going to give a go, but I'm getting conflicting reports on how to set the distributor. I had to pull it because part needed replacing, and a friend that was over decided to rotate the engine so the pulley mark met the TDC mark and I think this is where I started having problems.

Setting timing is the same on most motors including your inline 6. How I told you is the easiest way.........take all the plugs out. I normally just cover the spark plug hole loosely with the tip of my finger.......but some think that is unsafe so do the hose trick.........when the pressure blows your finger off ( go slowly) that cylinder #1 is near TDC.........if you can look in the cylinder with a light you should be able to see the top of the piston........move your front hub on the crankshaft with a breaker bar either forward or back and watch the piston action that again is TDC for #1.............Take your distributor cap off and see where the rotor is pointing...............the rotor should be at or near the center of the cap position for the #1 wire.......if it is not your distributor is not in the correct location and has to be removed and rotated whatever direction to accomplish that.............
If you look at the front hub it should still show your on or near TDC and that is because the crankshaft / Pistons are keyed to the hub............it will be your ignition and valve timing that is off since those depend on the timing chain for proper position.

Here is where your getting confused.......#1 the crankshaft / piston timing has to be established first..........( that's why we are bringing #1 up to TDC) then the distributor has to be dropped in to meet that position........where ever that might be.
Now if the timing chain has jumped you will still be in time and the motor may start for the new position, but if it has jumped it will not stay there and the chain / sprocket will have to be replaced.