Staying in 2nd gear

[Super8mm]

I got to do some running around in my new to me CJ5 and there is a little issue with the Transmission .

When up shifting from 1st to 2nd it stays in 2nd until I shift again but when down shifting from 3rd to 2nd it does not like to stay in 2nd all the time.

would that be the pieces that slide over the shiftier fork arms, or maybe a bent shiftier arm?

Thanks

 

[Hedgehog]

Typical SR4 problem, good luck. There is no permanent fix, the SR4 makes a great boat anchor. Yes, I know that is harsh, I had an SR4 , spent a lot of money trying to get it fixed. Start thinking about a Transmission upgrade. Unfortunately the T-4 and T-5 's are the suggested replacements and they aren't very much better.

 

[Super8mm]

Typical SR4 problem, good luck. There is no permanent fix, the SR4 makes a great boat anchor. Yes, I know that is harsh, I had an SR4 , spent a lot of money trying to get it fixed. Start thinking about a Transmission upgrade. Unfortunately the T-4 and T-5 's are the suggested replacements and they aren't very much better.

Thanks, I have done some looking at the SM465. there seems to be a lot of them out there for $300 and up with a fully rebuilt one with the adapters for about $1700.

If i go with another gear box I may as well get one that will hold up to a small block ??

 

[hole]

Check Novaks website, there are many transmissions to choose from

 

[Hedgehog]

Always keep in mind, a Transmission and engine swap are never an easy proposition. Aside from motors and Transmission and Transfer Case adaptors there are motor mounts, Transmission mounts, driveshaft modifications. Then there is the occasionally problematic AMC20 rear axle. Essentially, add power = increased failure in the drive train. But, I admit that I have no idea as to your experiences in this field. No matter what, good luck with this.

 

[Super8mm]

Check Novaks website, there are many transmissions to choose from

Thanks hole, that is where I first found out about the SM465.

 

[Super8mm]

Always keep in mind, a Transmission and engine swap are never an easy proposition. Aside from motors and Transmission and Transfer Case adaptors there are motor mounts, Transmission mounts, driveshaft modifications. Then there is the occasionally problematic AMC20 rear axle. Essentially, add power = increased failure in the drive train. But, I admit that I have no idea as to your experiences in this field. No matter what, good luck with this.

Thanks Hedgehog, I did put a sb400 in my old J20 but kept the everything the same behind the bell housing so that was not to bad.

The Iron Duke was replaced about 5K miles ago with a new crate motor so it should last a good long while but I am not sure how the SM465 will match up to it. I do know the cost of a complete tranny ready to install is and that mating it up to the Dana 300 will be another $550 - $600

 

[Hedgehog]

I know we all tend to be power hungry, but the Iron Duke I had was a decent engine. But like you are debating, the SR4 had to go and why not upgrade the engine too. So in went a Buick 231 V6 and a Ford T-18 with the stock Dana 300 Transfer Case . A great combination that allowed the Transfer Case to stay in the stock location. However, you mentioned a small block and that is a different beast all together. I assume you are referring to a Chevy small block with the distributor in the back, potentially against the firewall. Generally things have to move, which brings in the need for driveshaft alterations. ….. a whole chain of events start there.

 

[Super8mm]

I know we all tend to be power hungry, but the Iron Duke I had was a decent engine. But like you are debating, the SR4 had to go and why not upgrade the engine too. So in went a Buick 231 V6 and a Ford T-18 with the stock Dana 300 Transfer Case . A great combination that allowed the Transfer Case to stay in the stock location. However, you mentioned a small block and that is a different beast all together. I assume you are referring to a Chevy small block with the distributor in the back, potentially against the firewall. Generally things have to move, which brings in the need for driveshaft alterations. ….. a whole chain of events start there.

Thanks Hedgehog, I dont mind the slow Iron Duke but was wondering if using a engine and tranny that did not need adapters on that side would be better and just use the adapter on the tranny to Transfer Case ? my preferred SB would be a FI 302 but that brings into play a lot more things.

most likely best option is something what would bolt up the the 4 cyl without mods. I wonder what eng to Transmission bolt pattern the AX15 uses?

I did just find the phone number for Novak so I can call them tomorrow

 

[Super8mm]

A follow up, I called Novak and they told me that the SM420 I would have to move rear tranny/Transmission mount back as it is longer. I asked about the AX15 5 spd and they said it is way to long.

Best deal is the SM465 about the only thing needed fro the engine to tranny side is to get the hole in the bell housing machined out or get one of their bell housings but I would still have to adapt the tranny to the Transfer Case .

 

[hole]

I know nothing about the SR4 , but when I pulled the T-5 for a T19, I was pleased to learn that including the Novak adapter they were the same length so no need to move cross member or lengthen/shorten drive shafts

 

[Super8mm]

I know nothing about the SR4 , but when I pulled the T-5 for a T19, I was pleased to learn that including the Novak adapter they were the same length so no need to move cross member or lengthen/shorten drive shafts

The SR4 uses a GM bolt pattern so if I stay with a GM tranny the fewer adapters I will have to use, which is less expensive and less things to go wrong. I am a firm believer in the KISS methodology.

 

[jp360cj]

A follow up, I called Novak and they told me that the SM420 I would have to move rear tranny/Transmission mount back as it is longer. I asked about the AX15 5 spd and they said it is way to long.

Best deal is the SM465 about the only thing needed fro the engine to tranny side is to get the hole in the bell housing machined out or get one of their bell housings but I would still have to adapt the tranny to the Transfer Case .

I thought the Iron Duke used the same engine bolt pattern as a SBC? If that's the case, then all you need to bolt a SM465 to your engine is the stock SM465 SBC bell housing.

Also, according to Novak's website, the 420 is actually shorter than the 465, but the 465 w/Dana 300 adapter is the same length as the SR4 .

The SR4 uses a GM bolt pattern so if I stay with a GM tranny the fewer adapters I will have to use, which is less expensive and less things to go wrong. I am a firm believer in the KISS methodology.

I swapped in a T-18 , but for a Chevy engine, I would definitely stick to a Chevy Transmission . No need to complicate things and add unnecessary expense. Adapt to your Dana 300 and be done.

 

[Super8mm]

Thanks jp360cj, We talked about several different Transmission setups so it maybe the 420 is shorter but it would still require more work to get it to fit right.

Yes the 4 cyl uses a SBC and all with bolt up except the throat on the Tranny opening has to be opened up for the 465. Then with their adaptor to the 300 the drive line will be the same length. One other thing is what clutch to use, that depends on the splines on the tranny as there were 3 different ones used.

If the cards fall right I may not have to change the clutch as I suspect when they put the crate motor in about 5K miles ago they probable did the clutch and throwout bearing too.

Now to start watching Craigslist weekly, today there are 4 listed, all have shift levers and 2 also have bell housings. hmmmm with bell housing could save a step. all 4 are priced between $AMC 150 and $200.

 

[jp360cj]

Thanks jp360cj, We talked about several different Transmission setups so it maybe the 420 is shorter but it would still require more work to get it to fit right.

Yeah, either way, the 420 will be more will more work and expense with the driveshaft. If you were planning on a lot of lift (like an SOA), then the shorter length could be beneficial. But otherwise, the 465 will be the better fit/easier swap.

Yes the 4 cyl uses a SBC and all with bolt up except the throat on the Tranny opening has to be opened up for the 465. Then with their adaptor to the 300 the drive line will be the same length.

But the Transmission has nothing to do with the bolt pattern on then engine. If the engine side of the bell housing is the same, then no need to machine your bellhousing. Just get a stock chevy bellhousing that fits the 465. You may even get the right bellhousing with the Transmission .

 

[RattleTrap]

While this may not apply to you, I offer it anyway.

When I purchased my CJ7 it would jump out of 2nd gear with out warning either when moving in slow traffic or when decelerating down. As it turned out the PO had replaced the shifter boot but not centered it. I was forward and to one side so that when i let off the gas in second gear the natural movement of the engine was enough to bump the shifter against the boot and knock it out of gear. Since it was the metal shifter was hitting rubber ever so lightly it made no noise.

To solve this problem all I had to do was reposition the boot to eliminate the contact....

It is a simple test - remove the screws that hold the boot to the floor and slide up the shifter handle. Then go for a drive...

For what it is worth.

 

[Super8mm]

Yeah, either way, the 420 will be more will more work and expense with the driveshaft. If you were planning on a lot of lift (like an SOA), then the shorter length could be beneficial. But otherwise, the 465 will be the better fit/easier swap.
But the Transmission has nothing to do with the bolt pattern on then engine. If the engine side of the bell housing is the same, then no need to machine your bellhousing. Just get a stock chevy bellhousing that fits the 465. You may even get the right bellhousing with the Transmission .

Thanks, I wont be lifting as I will be towing it behind my motor home and with 30" tires it is plenty high for running around pastures and the the like, no serious hard core stuff. well most of the time

the bell housing to engine bolt pattern was only used on 84-93 S-10. those will be a direct fit but the one on mine would have to be opened up.

I sent a not to some on craigs list that had bell housings still attached so If I get one of those maybe I can swap bell housing to a salvage yard for a S-10?? Time Will tell how it works out.

 

[Super8mm]

While this may not apply to you, I offer it anyway.

When I purchased my CJ7 it would jump out of 2nd gear with out warning either when moving in slow traffic or when decelerating down. As it turned out the PO had replaced the shifter boot but not centered it. I was forward and to one side so that when i let off the gas in second gear the natural movement of the engine was enough to bump the shifter against the boot and knock it out of gear. Since it was the metal shifter was hitting rubber ever so lightly it made no noise.

To solve this problem all I had to do was reposition the boot to eliminate the contact....

It is a simple test - remove the screws that hold the boot to the floor and slide up the shifter handle. Then go for a drive...

For what it is worth.

Thanks, When I got the jeep it was doing this but I think most of the time it is when I downshift to 2nd it will jump out or not want to go in at all. that boot was torn in half horizontally so that would not be the problem this time.

 

[jp360cj]

the bell housing to engine bolt pattern was only used on 84-93 S-10. those will be a direct fit but the one on mine would have to be opened up.

I sent a not to some on craigs list that had bell housings still attached so If I get one of those maybe I can swap bell housing to a salvage yard for a S-10?? Time Will tell how it works out.

So the Iron duke in the CJ doesn't have the SBC pattern? Everything I've ever read says they are the same.

 

[Super8mm]

So the Iron duke in the CJ doesn't have the SBC pattern? Everything I've ever read says they are the same.

The bolt pattern is the same for Transmission to bell housing but they said the bell housing to block is different. as 2 of the Transmission come will bell housings that is what I was hoping for, they even have the throwout bearing arms.

They also said my bell housing should have a 4-11/16 hold but it will need to be opened up to 5.000 to accept the SM465. this info comes from novak's page