Staying on the road

[soszynski]

My newly aquired 72 CJ5 is not happy staying straight on the road. It will walk to the left or right and driving requires constant correction. It has power steering, no lift and 10.5 x31 inch tires. I replaced the sloppy shackles, and creepy steering universal and it seemed a little better. I was sure the warn out ball joint replacement would get it to drive right, but the super tight front end now makes the walking WORSE. There is definite toe-in, and positive camber, not sure about caster.

My question is, would a simple alignment make this thing drive straight? I undersatnd the wheel base is short and problems can be very exagerated. The tires are not warn unevenly, but I dont think the jeep has been driven very much in the last 20 years. I beleive the tires are nearly that old and have most of their tread.

 

[coldwater]

Could be a number of things, but usually it comes down to basic maintenance. I would give the tie rod ends a good shake down, and check the steering box to be sure it's not simply worn out. Most issues will be found in those 2 places.

 

[soszynski]

I think the steering box is new, and has no play at all, tie rods are all either new or tight as well. My freind owns a garage and is a bit perplexed about this too. We plan on getting it onto the alignment machine this week.

It really bummed me out to spend pretty much the whole weekend on the ball joint job only to make the trouble worse.

 

[CJKrawler]

Does the steering wheel have play? With the wander, do you see the steering wheel move, and how much of a correction is necessary? Also, is it on any road, any speed? I know where I am at, how bad my Jeep would wander depended on the road I was travelling down. Also, you said the tires were older, have you tried rotating them? Does it seem to be worse when you accelerate, decelerate, or just constant speed? These might help determine more closely to where the problem is.

 

[dslywalker]

Do you have a steering stabilizer shock mounted on the front end.I put neopreme bushings in the front end of my old 5 and it helped a bunch after I went thru what you did.
Mike

 

[soszynski]

The steering column is an aftermarket Flaming River which is very tight, small steering wheel. The wheel does not pull or act up on bumpy or smooth roads. The symptoms are worst at about 30MPH, but start at zero. Better at 40. If I take a right out of my driveway, the thing wants to do U turn, and I have to over correct to get straight (slight exaggeration). Drving down the road at 30 and I have to tuck one way, then the other to keep in the lane. From the serial numbers on the tires, they may be 16 years old. I have not rotated them, but will give that a try.

It has a Ranchero steering stablizer that seems to be stiff still.

I was reading that the camber should be zero degrees and will see if I can see how bad it is tonight. I think its on the order of 3 degrees or more.

Thanks to all for thinking with me!

 

[CJ MAN]

Sounds like new tire are in order immediately

 

[jeeper78]

Just another thought... You mentioned that you think the steering box may be new. Could it be a faster ratio box than you are used to? IE less turn of the steering wheel to make the tires turn the same angle. a small steering wheel will exagerate this as well. I know there are boxes out there that are set up like this.

 

[73CJ]

Have someone turn the wheel back and forth - not running. Crawl under and check every joint that could wear. Put 1 finger on one side and your thumb on the other side of the joint. No play, move on to the next one.

Can't change the caster or camber, only toe-in. You can change the caster with longer shackles. Are they stock length?

How were the spring bushings? All 6 in the front. Check the rear bushings too.

Can you borrow some new tires to check it out?

Check the cheap things first and go from there.

Or maybe a cracked frame by the steering box?

 

[soszynski]

I am still here, a busy work week, and a couple graduation partys has not given me much time with my new child.
I am all for not buying a ton of stuff to see if it helps, so this is the order of my troubleshooting week.
Rotated tires, no real difference, although they are old, their tread is even, and still about 3/8 inch. Tried lowering air pressure thinking old tires are too hard, with no change.
Played with the toe just for yucks and found a slight toe out made it a little better, but clearly this is not a solution.

There is a great article on this site posted by TDHoffstetter about trouble shooting and correcting steering problems, http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f19/troubleshooting-correcting-your-steering-4106/ and it pretty much reflects all that folks have been posting here.

I went through the front end and checked each connection with the help of my 12 year old and found everything to be tight. We did find the steering box will flex/move slightly when sitting still turning the steering wheel. I removed all the bolts, and replaced the ones that were not grade 8s and tightend the out of everything. This made a big difference in the "flex".

Still some movement was seen and the best I can tell, there are no cracks in the frame, front shackles are new, 3 inches bolt to bolt. The rear bushings of the front springs have not been checked.

Taking a page from the article, I went to the back of the jeep and these shackles are a mess as well. There are no bushings left on the top frame shackle connections. A side to side push of the Jeep shows the shackles flop back and forth badly. I ordered new ones, but took the time to replace the worst side with some crappy bushings I bought on Ebay that dont really fit right. Energy suspension makes replacement bushings, that do not fit 7/16 bolts, so you have to go with loose 3/8. Not tight, but better than what was on there for sure.

To my amazement, the walking is quite controllable and I think replacing all remaining spring bushings with the correct ones may solve the problem completely.

I will let you know how they go when they get here hopefully next week!

Thanks again to eveyone for listening........

 

[Old Dog]

Glad to hear your getting it figured out.

 

[CJKrawler]

glad to hear you are making headway, now how about some pics?

 

[soszynski]

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Not sure how the best way to do photos just yet

 

[73CJ]

Looks like you have dual spring perches in the rear?