Stiff ball joints and steering issues

[billyballer]

I have been chasing a steering problem since I swapped in a new front axle a few months back. It felt like a combination of bump steer, and problems with little corrections in steering causing over correction and wander.

I did pretty much everything, bushings, beefier tie rod/drag link, flipped them over the top of the knuckle, and alignment. The bump steer is now gone, and the jeep tracks better, but there is still an issue with the correction. If you need to make a minor correction while driving straight, the correction seems to always go to far the other way. I think this is caused by the steering not want to center up. While this seems like a castor issue, I checked an rechecked castor and it is well within spec.

After doing a ton of internet research I finally found one person who had a similar problem that they pinned on stiff ball-joints.

So I obtained the FSM section on how to check this. With drag link and tie rod disconnected, and a bolt running through the tie rod end hole, you can put a torque wrench on that bolt and the effort to turn the knuckle should be 10 ft/lbs or less through the full range. Sure enough mine was 15 ft/lbs on both knuckles.
I decided to pull the axles out and double check just in case I had a bad u joint. Well I do have a bad axle u joint, but even without the axle in the effort is still at 15 lb/ft.
My next move was to adjust the preload split nut. I pulled the knuckle off then reassembled and preloaded the nut to 45 instead of 50. Still too stiff.

My question is, What is the proper way to set the preload. The FSM says to tighten the bottom ball joint all the way before even installing the preload nut, but other folks I've read, run it in so it is protruding a little below the top knuckle casting, then tighten the bottom joint. I think I'm going to just order another set of ball joints and redo everything, just to be sure, but I want to do the job right.

It should also be noted that the bad u-joint can cause steering problems to. I've read a lot about steering issues on this site but had never heard of the stiff ball joints being the issue until now, so hope this info might help someone else sort their steering down the road.

I also noticed my steering box has a tiny bit of play. Barely noticeable by the naked eye but I can feel it when I rock the pitman arm with my hand. That is next on my list.

 

[Torxhead]

How about a pic of that front end linkage, it sounds like you did quite a bit of work to it.

 

[mstar]

I have been on this site urging folks to pay attention to ball joints and axle u-joints for a while now.They either ignore it or say "ya they look ok"after they have been in there 30 or 40 years. I have seen several builds where they do everything BUT the ball joints.Ridiculous !
I know they are not fun to change but really get a clue. mike

 

[billyballer]

mstar,
It's great that you keep reinforcing that. I think most of the stuff I read about ball joints being a problem had to do with them being loose. But I'll echo your statement that tight ball joints are a problem too. In my case I actually did replace the ball joints, but the new joints were given to me by the guy I bought my axle housing from. Unfortunately despite the fact that they were "new" in terms of packaging, I realize that they could have been new old stock units that might have been sitting for years.

Still interested in the correct preload adjustment procedure.

Here's a pic of the tie rod flip with beefier Rugged Ridge HD tie rod and drag link:

 

[tarry99]

I have been chasing a steering problem since I swapped in a new front axle a few months back. It felt like a combination of bump steer, and problems with little corrections in steering causing over correction and wander.

I did pretty much everything, bushings, beefier tie rod/drag link, flipped them over the top of the knuckle, and alignment. The bump steer is now gone, and the jeep tracks better, but there is still an issue with the correction. If you need to make a minor correction while driving straight, the correction seems to always go to far the other way. I think this is caused by the steering not want to center up. While this seems like a castor issue, I checked an rechecked castor and it is well within spec.

After doing a ton of internet research I finally found one person who had a similar problem that they pinned on stiff ball-joints.

So I obtained the FSM section on how to check this. With drag link and tie rod disconnected, and a bolt running through the tie rod end hole, you can put a torque wrench on that bolt and the effort to turn the knuckle should be 10 ft/lbs or less through the full range. Sure enough mine was 15 ft/lbs on both knuckles.
I decided to pull the axles out and double check just in case I had a bad u joint. Well I do have a bad axle u joint, but even without the axle in the effort is still at 15 lb/ft.
My next move was to adjust the preload split nut. I pulled the knuckle off then reassembled and preloaded the nut to 45 instead of 50. Still too stiff.

My question is, What is the proper way to set the preload. The FSM says to tighten the bottom ball joint all the way before even installing the preload nut, but other folks I've read, run it in so it is protruding a little below the top knuckle casting, then tighten the bottom joint. I think I'm going to just order another set of ball joints and redo everything, just to be sure, but I want to do the job right.

It should also be noted that the bad u-joint can cause steering problems to. I've read a lot about steering issues on this site but had never heard of the stiff ball joints being the issue until now, so hope this info might help someone else sort their steering down the road.

I also noticed my steering box has a tiny bit of play. Barely noticeable by the naked eye but I can feel it when I rock the pitman arm with my hand. That is next on my list.

How much Castor do you have? 5-7 degree's is what you want to get it to steer straight and get it to return to center...........How did you center the steering gear when you replaced the drag ling? There is a "Sweet Spot" in the gear at dead center....... if you moved the gear at all to get it back together when hooking up the Drag Link the gear needs to be re-centered first without the Link attached.......then add the drag link and make adjustments to the TRE's ends..........

I would also at some point see if you can pull some string lines on your suspension from front to back and then in an X pattern..........pick points that are common factory points on all 4 corners like a factory rivet location that holds the bumper on or that attaches the spring hangers...........get a friend to help......or on level concrete drop a plum bob from the corners / spring hangers and mark them all on the ground with chalk and then check the dimensions on the concrete on the flat plain. A crooked frame or spring hanger will never go straight or act correctly!

A Go-Pro Camera mounted under the front end for a few minutes in different locations will tell you allot about what's going on up there while your driving!

 

[mstar]

Billy ,I did not catch the part about the new joints.My bad.
They are pretty stiff when new.FWIW the TJ doen't have a adjustment
to my surprise. Just press them into housing and mount knuckle.
Go figure.? mike

 

[billyballer]

Castor is 6 degrees. When I replaced the drag link I simply set the drag link length to match the old drag link measuring from center to center of the drag link ends. Kept the steering wheel locked in place so the pitman arm never moved. It had these issues before I switched the drag link though. Probably worth double checking.

Go pro is a great idea to.
I do have access to a nice concrete slab so I can check for square. Although before doing the axle swap the jeep tracked very straight with know issues, and now the issues are pretty minor, so I really do think the excessive ball joint stiffness is my problem.

 

[billyballer]

This is a follow up from 2 years later now. Not long after my last post I replaced the front ball joints again with brand new off the shelf, and replaced the front axle u-joints, and now it tracks super straight again, and I can cruise with one hand on the freeway. I really do think the frozen axle u-joint was the biggest culprit, but I replaced ball joints and u-joints at the same time so I will never be able to say definitely. Regardless it's great to drive again, and no more sore forearms from hanging on to the steering wheel for dear life.

 

[Petescj]

Billy I just went through this about a year ago. Wish I would've remembered your thread. Mine was the axle Ujoints. It was a bear to drive and how you described either over correction. I swapped out a few parts before I found the real culprit. Glad you got it solved.

 

[77GoldenEagle]

Just found the jeep I own over 35 years ago(not the exact VIN), exact Jeep CJ5 Golden Eagle Limited Edition. The transporter dropped it off to my on Friday and I took it for a spin and man it was a small episode in terror. The vehicle looks great and pretty much everything but the motor has been replaced. All of this being said, I am experiencing wandering/sway, bump steer, to me it's excessive, I haven't driven manual steering in 30 years so I don't know what's normal. I have been reading this thread and it looks like the ball joints and axle u joints are a good place to start. This vehicle has been restored but, was not used very often and it had to endure Tucson AZ heat. I greased all of the joints which seem a little dry. Just validating ball joint torque should be at 10 ft/pd for full range? I am ramping back up on my Jeep maintenance and repair, it been 30 years so I'm a little rusty.

Thanks!

 

[Torxhead]

77GoldenEagle, Here is a great post that might help you get started on your steering issues: http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f99/troubleshooting-correcting-your-steering-4106/
I have to also suggest starting your own post to get a better response, good luck.

 

[mriplaybass]

77GoldenEagle, Here is a great post that might help you get started on your steering issues: http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f99/troubleshooting-correcting-your-steering-4106/
I have to also suggest starting your own post to get a better response, good luck.

Torx, great article! I never saw it before. One thing I noticed when reading it though, he says to put a level on the pinion yoke, and that it should be plumb. I know that when mine was like this, it wandered all over the road. Once I shimmed it so that the pinion pointed down 6°, the steering was improved exponentially. I probably could have even gone 8°, but I don't drive 70mph in the Jeep.

 

[Hedgehog]

Another one for what Mr. Bass said. Mine tended to wander with a wicked frightening tail wag until it got a set of 6* shims. Now it's good up to 70 or so, 8* might have been better. The shims go in backwards from what you might originally think. The big side is toward the front which will lower the pinion angle.

 

[Torxhead]

The author of that post might be using a stock set of leaf springs. Installing high lift springs really messes up the front pinion angle after the castor is corrected with a stock diff housing. I do believe that the article gets you going in the right direction, researching the websites archives can reveal great info. I appreciate the comments.

 

[gert]

such a balancing act. when you shim the axle it rotates the ball joints to get your "return to center" back which cuts down on you wandering. This also points the yoke down putting a worse angle on the u joint when you are in 4wd so be careful how much you shim.

 

[Hedgehog]

All I know is that the front end shop told me that I needed to add between 4* & 8* and my CJ was at ~1.5*. Shimming with a 6* wedge instantly took me CJ from dangerous to drive to safe. Agreed that might not fix steering troubles with everybody's CJ. It was odd. The original axles didn't need additional wedges and it drove very well. Switching to a different axle with disk brakes was an entirely different situation. All I can think of was that a PO turned his perches when he was running 35's.