t18 mishap!

[Dan77CJ7]

I couple months back i bought a T-18a/Dana 20 /driveshafts all from a rolled doner, turns out its not a wide ratio like i want, not to be a snob but a close ratio just won't work! i found another T-18a here are the numbers i was given.

Near the top cover 13-01-097-907

on the side 13-01-065-906


reverse down and to the right


PTO driver side

short shaft about 6.25in



this T-18a is alone with no bellhousing, what should i look for and what do i need to hopefully use this T-18a. Its out of a 79 CJ7 , can i use my bull gear off my Dana 20 for the T-18 ?

Thanks

 

[IOPort51]

I couple months back i bought a T-18a/Dana 20 /driveshafts all from a rolled doner, turns out its not a wide ratio like i want, not to be a snob but a close ratio just won't work! i found another T-18a here are the numbers i was given.

Near the top cover 13-01-097-907

on the side 13-01-065-906


reverse down and to the right


PTO driver side

short shaft about 6.25in



this T-18a is alone with no bellhousing, what should i look for and what do i need to hopefully use this T-18a. Its out of a 79 CJ7 , can i use my bull gear off my Dana 20 for the T-18 ?

Thanks

measure whatever bell you have and see if the shaft is long enough. I would want to put it in gear and check the ratio before parting with the cash. the over and down is right and PTO is on the correct side. The Dana 20 should bolt right on

 

[GARGOYLEJEEPER]

Dan77CJ7,
The rear is correct (gear always goes with the Transfer Case , not the Transmission ) the front is too short your T-150 is 7.25" and that T-18 is 6.25", so you will need a bell housing and a clutch disc, since the T-150 is 1 1/16" 10 spline and the T-18 is 1 1/8" 10 spline.
Then the usual DL work and shifter cover work.
So 2 parts and some work sounds like fun.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

If stock from 1979 the CJ T-18 reverse will be to the right and down. The numbers you give are “Near the top cover 13-01-097-907” and “on the side 13-01-065-906”. According to Novak the 13-01-097-907 number is mostly associated with 1976 to 1978 CJ T-18 and should be cast into the side of the case. The 13-01-065-906 is a casting number common to the 1979 CJ T-18 top cover and a 1979 case may have a cast number of 13-01-065-904 as the front bearing is wider than the 1976 to 1978 CJ T-18s. There seems to be some confusion with the numbers on your Transmission .

I am also a little confused over the stick out length of your front shaft. You state that it has a 6.25” stick out. The Ford version of the T-18 uses a 1-1/16” diameter shaft with a 6.5” stick out length while the CJ version uses a 1-1/8” diameter shaft with a stick out length of 7.43”. If using the shorter Ford version with a stock 1976 to 1979 bell housing there is a special pilot bushing available to make up the difference between the two. Also if a true CJ T-18 it will be set up for the Dana 20 Transfer Case . Look for a 1” plate at the back of the Transmission with the upside down “Texas” bolt pattern. (On the true CJ T-18 the back plate is not an adaptor but part of the Transmission .) The bull gear will bolt up to the 6 spline rear shaft.

All 1977 to 1979 CJ bell housings will be drilled for both the CJ T-18 and the Ford butterfly pattern used on the T-150 (This allows you to use either the CJ or Ford T-18 ); so with the stock bell from your 1977 CJ you should be good to go. As IO said, put the Transmission in low, mark the shafts and count the revolutions to assure you are getting a 6.32:1.

 

[Turbogus]

No wonder there's so much confusion on these T 18's. This one is verified as coming out of a 1980 Ford pickup

Note the ...907 suffix and yet the PTO port is on the right side like a Ford.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

No wonder there's so much confusion on these T 18's. This one is verified as coming out of a 1980 Ford pickup

Note the ...907 suffix and yet the PTO port is on the right side like a Ford.

And for the Ford version such as in the picture it is going to cost another $500 for the rear output shaft & adaptor plus $80 for the pilot bushing. If you need to rebuild the tranny the small parts kit runs around $200. (Prices may vary per geological location and what parts guys you know of course) It starts to get expensive fast.

 

[Dan77CJ7]

Ok i talked to my seller, the stick out is 6in and some change... he says he might have the bellhousing that it came with...but not for sure! with the stick out at 6.25ish what bellhousing measurements should i be looking for, as far has the depth for the bellhouse.

on a second note if i bought the t18a for 400bux and it doesnt fit, is there room to get my money back? and i do realize that i can make it fit, but i really want it to be a bolt in, so's i can say's its factoryish....

is this the texas star bolt pattern?

Only pic i could get of the t18a

 

[Dan77CJ7]

Dan77CJ7,
The rear is correct (gear always goes with the Transfer Case , not the Transmission ) the front is too short your T-150 is 7.25" and that T-18 is 6.25", so you will need a bell housing and a clutch disc, since the T-150 is 1 1/16" 10 spline and the T-18 is 1 1/8" 10 spline.
Then the usual DL work and shifter cover work.
So 2 parts and some work sounds like fun.

whats the DL, sry i dont know that one. driveline? will the tunnel cover not work?

 

[hole]

Yes, driveline . You will have to shorten/lengthen your driveshafts. Gonna need a pic of the rear of the Transmission to tell you the bolt pattern. With the input shaft at 6+ inches, it is from a Ford. As far as price, I've seen them advertised from $AMC 150 up to $600. Is the seller telling you this is a factory Transmission out of a Jeep?

 

[IOPort51]

Ok i talked to my seller, the stick out is 6in and some change... he says he might have the bellhousing that it came with...but not for sure! with the stick out at 6.25ish what bellhousing measurements should i be looking for, as far has the depth for the bellhouse.

on a second note if i bought the t18a for 400bux and it doesnt fit, is there room to get my money back? and i do realize that i can make it fit, but i really want it to be a bolt in, so's i can say's its factoryish....

is this the texas star bolt pattern?

Only pic i could get of the t18a

I would calculate the need for a bell not deeper than 5.3/4". that sounds awfully short. the bell I am using is 8 1/8" and the adapter is 1" the shaft stick out is 9 1/2".

It is a jeep case, ford PTO on passenger side, jeep on the port side.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

From your pictures it is hard to tell the bolt pattern of the Transmission but it does not look like a Ford butterfly, looks more like the CJ version. The 1977 bell housing will bolt to either the Ford or CJ T-18 so you should be OK but you will need the special pilot bushing from Novak or Advanced Adaptors due to the short front shaft. However this assumes that the stick out on the front shaft is indeed 6.5” and not 6.25”. If 6.25” I would give a call to Novak or Advanced Adaptors and ask the question if the pilot bushing they sell will work.

I am curious about the short shaft in what appears to be a CJ T-18 front bolt pattern. I have only seen this once before but the true original source of the Transmission was unknown although the person who’s floor the Transmission was sitting on claimed it had lived in his CJ at one time; his CJ was nowhere to be seen so I can’t speak to the year or engine in the jeep. That T-18 now lives on the floor of my storage unit; I will pull it out and see what’s up.

 

[IOPort51]

Now seems like a good time to bring up bell housings.

Not counting FSJ s how many different bells did the CJ come with. It there a difference between the T-150 , T-176 , T-18 , T-4 or T-5 ? I am thinking in the year range from 74 to 84.

 

[Torxhead]

With what little I know, there is just one casting for the CJ w/AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , not sure if it can interchange the the CJ w/AMC 304 though. There were 2 bolt patterns available on it, making two versions, all the bolt locations were noticeable from the back side of the housing through little casting pockets, so they can be drilled and tapped out. I would recommend heli-coil installation on the 7/16-14 threaded holes since it is cast aluminum.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Now seems like a good time to bring up bell housings.

Not counting FSJ s how many different bells did the CJ come with. It there a difference between the T-150 , T-176 , T-18 , T-4 or T-5 ? I am thinking in the year range from 74 to 84.

All AMC I-6 and V8 blocks have the same bell housing bolt pattern and are completely interchangeable between them but remember that the fly wheels on the V8s are not all the same. They are externally balanced and must use a flywheel balanced to that particular engine displacement (AMC 304 , 360, 401) 1972 to 1975 (not sure in 1976 when things changed) plus 1980 and up bell housings were Transmission specific. 1977 to 1979 were drilled and taped for the Ford Butterfly (T-150 ) and the CJ T-18 . I also think the T-176 is the Ford butterfly pattern but could be wrong on that one.

 

[Dan77CJ7]

From your pictures it is hard to tell the bolt pattern of the Transmission but it does not look like a Ford butterfly, looks more like the CJ version. The 1977 bell housing will bolt to either the Ford or CJ T-18 so you should be OK but you will need the special pilot bushing from Novak or Advanced Adaptors due to the short front shaft. However this assumes that the stick out on the front shaft is indeed 6.5” and not 6.25”. If 6.25” I would give a call to Novak or Advanced Adaptors and ask the question if the pilot bushing they sell will work.

I am curious about the short shaft in what appears to be a CJ T-18 front bolt pattern. I have only seen this once before but the true original source of the Transmission was unknown although the person who’s floor the Transmission was sitting on claimed it had lived in his CJ at one time; his CJ was nowhere to be seen so I can’t speak to the year or engine in the jeep. That T-18 now lives on the floor of my storage unit; I will pull it out and see what’s up.

thanks, the seller is an older man, just had knee surgry, so his sons is going to come over and take measurements.... and thanks again.

 

[Hedgehog]

Saddle Tramp - My '82 360 used or uses a specific flywheel (extrenally balanced). MAybe the bell housing changed, but as far as I know all AMC V8's are extrenally balanced for the specific engine displacement.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Saddle Tramp - My '82 360 used or uses a specific flywheel (extrenally balanced). MAybe the bell housing changed, but as far as I know all AMC V8's are extrenally balanced for the specific engine displacement.

Hedge- Sorry for the confusion. It looks like I left out “all the same” from the first line in the text. It should have been not all the same. Agreed, all AMC V8s are externally balanced but some people don’t realize that a flywheel from a AMC 304 will NOT work on a 360 etc, and in some cases I have seen where people think that the I-6 flywheel will work on a V8. We have a bunch of “new to CJs” people on the board and I don’t want them to not realize what is required.

 

[IOPort51]

All AMC I-6 and V8 blocks have the same bell housing bolt pattern and are completely interchangeable between them but remember that the fly wheels on the V8s are not all the same. They are externally balanced and must use a flywheel balanced to that particular engine displacement (AMC 304 , 360, 401) 1972 to 1975 (not sure in 1976 when things changed) plus 1980 and up bell housings were Transmission specific. 1977 to 1979 were drilled and taped for the Ford Butterfly (T-150 ) and the CJ T-18 . I also think the T-176 is the Ford butterfly pattern but could be wrong on that one.

I would go so far as to say that the flywheel had to be balanced for that specific motor ie. crank, balancer,rods,etc.

 

[Dan77CJ7]

If stock from 1979 the CJ T-18 reverse will be to the right and down. The numbers you give are “Near the top cover 13-01-097-907” and “on the side 13-01-065-906”. According to Novak the 13-01-097-907 number is mostly associated with 1976 to 1978 CJ T-18 and should be cast into the side of the case. The 13-01-065-906 is a casting number common to the 1979 CJ T-18 top cover and a 1979 case may have a cast number of 13-01-065-904 as the front bearing is wider than the 1976 to 1978 CJ T-18s. There seems to be some confusion with the numbers on your Transmission .

I am also a little confused over the stick out length of your front shaft. You state that it has a 6.25” stick out. The Ford version of the T-18 uses a 1-1/16” diameter shaft with a 6.5” stick out length while the CJ version uses a 1-1/8” diameter shaft with a stick out length of 7.43”. If using the shorter Ford version with a stock 1976 to 1979 bell housing there is a special pilot bushing available to make up the difference between the two. Also if a true CJ T-18 it will be set up for the Dana 20 Transfer Case . Look for a 1” plate at the back of the Transmission with the upside down “Texas” bolt pattern. (On the true CJ T-18 the back plate is not an adaptor but part of the Transmission .) The bull gear will bolt up to the 6 spline rear shaft.

All 1977 to 1979 CJ bell housings will be drilled for both the CJ T-18 and the Ford butterfly pattern used on the T-150 (This allows you to use either the CJ or Ford T-18 ); so with the stock bell from your 1977 CJ you should be good to go. As IO said, put the Transmission in low, mark the shafts and count the revolutions to assure you are getting a 6.32:1.

what reason do you think this T-18 has a 6.5 stick out, this one has all the right stuff other then the stick out?

 

[tarry99]

Ok i talked to my seller, the stick out is 6in and some change... he says he might have the bellhousing that it came with...but not for sure! with the stick out at 6.25ish what bellhousing measurements should i be looking for, as far has the depth for the bellhouse.

on a second note if i bought the t18a for 400bux and it doesnt fit, is there room to get my money back? and i do realize that i can make it fit, but i really want it to be a bolt in, so's i can say's its factoryish....

is this the texas star bolt pattern?

Only pic i could get of the t18a

This picture is of a Jeep Borg Warner T-18 ......( Left side PTO, cast iron adapter for the Dana 20 in the rear and the small bolt pattern to the Bell Housing) as compared to the Ford version that has the wide Texas pattern up front, PTO on the Passenger side & would normally be found with an aluminum adapter for the TC case........the short input shaft could have been changed for another application, there are some Jeep T-18 versions that could be done after the fact if parts were available.......measure the input shaft size and count the splines. It will at least give you a clue to what it was bolted up to............as far as gear ratio's allot of those short inputs were 4.02:1...........

I always pull the top cover off for two reasons.......a quick count of the input shaft gear up front inside the case will determine the gear ratio.......if it's 17 teeth your good and that's a 6:32 low. Also one needs to look at the 1st reverse sliding gear in the rear of the Transmission , can't miss this large gear right on the main shaft.......check the teeth on this large gear......if they are all worn and rounded or chipped......I would put the cover back on and walk away!

And 6.5 inches stick out is correct for the input shaft but measured from the face of the Transmission , not from the face of the throw-out bearing housing.