Toe Alignment

[Mick]

O.K. Jeep gods, bare with me, this will be a long winded post...

I changed my tie-rods a little while ago and finally got time to set the toe... I used the old school method of wrapping a small nylon rope around the back tires, through their center point, and placing the ends of the rope on pedestals at the front of the Jeep... Some of you probably know what I am talking about...

With the front tires pointed straight ahead, their toe was definitely out of alignment... It appeared that the pitman arm was not lining up where it should be... So, I broke the pitman arm to tie rod joint... Turned the steering wheel in order to see how many turns it takes to go from one extreme turn angle to the other and then placed the steering wheel in its center... Next, I broke one of the joints on the center link rod... This allowed me to move the tires independently, set their toe, adjust the joints where they need to be and put it all back together...

After I was finished, I turned the steering wheel all the way to the right... The back edge of the passengers side tire and the front edge of the drivers side tire were about 1/8" from rubbing on the leaf spring... When I turned the steering wheel all the way to the left, the back edge of the drivers side tire and the front edge of the passenger side tire were about 2" from the leaf spring... It looked like the entire front axle had shifted towards the passenger side... I do not think that happened because the leaf springs, shackles, mounts on the axle all line up... With all of that said, the Jeep drove fine except when I make sharp right turns, the tires rub the leaf springs...

Is my steering gear/pitman arm not centered? Can anyone tell me a measurement from the frame that the pitman arm should be when centered?

 

[73CJ]

There is a stop bolt on each knuckle that can be adjusted so the tires won't hit the leafs.

If you are running bigger tires that my be the cause.

My pit men arm is keyed so I can't jump a tooth or two. The centering has to be done with the drag link,

 

[thescot]

Not sure I follow your alignment techniques but here's a easy one to try next time. Jack the front wheel off the ground slightly and get a piece of wood and drive a 16D nail thru it. Bend the nail over past say 45 degrees and set the board with the nail point back in the center of either tire and spin the wheel. This puts a nice very small scribe around the circumference of the tire. Now with the help of another measure the scribe at 90' front and back of the tire and adjust accordingly to set your toe in.

 

[harleydragon]

couldn't you adjust the drag link to split the difference

 

[jdarg]

The pitman is keyed every 90 degrees, or at least mine is on my 75. There's no way to install it wrong without it being super obvious the steering is shorter in one direction, so you should be good there.

Your terminology is slightly confusing. The tie rod goes from wheel to wheel. The drag link goes from one wheel to the pitman arm.

First try to dial in close to 0 toe by adjust the tie rod accordingly. Now find dead center on the steering box and if the tires are "turning" at that point, shorten/lengthen the drag link so it goes straight. This will likely take a bit of trial and error. Once that's good yhen adjust your toe a final time if needed w/ the tie rod. I would shoot for 1/16" with radial tires initially. This isn't computer alignment quality but should be good enough for an occasional driver/wheeler. Don't be afraid to play with the toe a bit to find where the steering feels best esp. at high speed but you probably don't want to toe out at all.

It is important the box is centered when the wheels are centered. Otherwise it may cause weird steering behavior. The boxes are tighter in the center vs. off-center when properly adjusted and the steering will feel funny and may return to center funny if its too far off.

 

[Mick]

I was using the wrong terminology... Now I understand that the tie rod goes from wheel to wheel and the drag link from pitman arm down to to the passenger side wheel...

To try not to confuse anyone else, the short story is this... The passenger side front tire sticks out (about 2 inches) further than the passenger side rear tire (when viewing from the front to the rear on the passenger side)... The drive side front tire is almost perfectly straight in line with the driver side rear tire...

I aligned the front tires to the rear tires using a string... Set the toe in about 1/16" of an inch... Like I said, the driver side is in almost perfect alignment, making it relatively easy to do... The passenger side front tire sticks out making the toe in a tougher to align...

Now, because the passenger side front tire appears to be offset to one side, as compared to the drivers side, when I turn the steering wheel one way, the tires rub the leaf springs, when I turn the steering wheel the other way, there is a 2 inch gap between the tires and the leaf springs...

The front tire steering stop bolts are set at the same position for each side... I am trying to figure out why one side appears to be offset while the other side is not... I do not see anything, like a spacer, that would offset the front passenger tire...

I hope this clears up any confusion...

 

[thescot]

If your springs,hangers and shackles are straight down and not all tweeked to one side or another two things come to mind, first is different rim on the side sticking out further because of different back spacing. Pull both fronts and place a board across the back of the tire while it lays on the ground. Then measure down to the flat area where the rim would seat against the rotors face when the lugs are tight and see if there's a difference. If their the same my guess is a bent frame. I bought a FJ40 years ago that had apparently been wacked on the drivers side and caused what you describe. The only thing I could find in the way of tell tale damage was a small kink in the frame back by the rear spring mount. I was pissed but felt pretty dumb for not noticing it upon the purchase.

 

[harleydragon]

If your springs,hangers and shackles are straight down and not all tweeked to one side or another two things come to mind, first is different rim on the side sticking out further because of different back spacing. Pull both fronts and place a board across the back of the tire while it lays on the ground. Then measure down to the flat area where the rim would seat against the rotors face when the lugs are tight and see if there's a difference. If their the same my guess is a bent frame. I bought a FJ40 years ago that had apparently been wacked on the drivers side and caused what you describe. The only thing I could find in the way of tell tale damage was a small kink in the frame back by the rear spring mount. I was pissed but felt pretty dumb for not noticing it upon the purchase.

good thinking

 

[TroyaCantrell]

Couple thoughts, and no offense extended but someone didn't put a wheel spacer on that side only did they? Without a picture we sometimes ask silly questions.

Did someone swap brake systems and put a different rotor on that side?

What about a broken center pin on your leaf spring? That would shift more up down then left right though.

If it was hit you can see it while driving behind it. It will crab walk. You can also see that if you just drive in a straight line and stop and get out and do your sighting with a little distance between you and the jeep.

You can also measure from frame rail to the inside of the rim on each side, they should be the same.


Troy Cantrell
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Build thread - '66 CJ6 :
http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15075

 

[Mick]

Sorry for taking so long to reply... Being an engineer at the local power plant occupies a lot of my time during the week...

I know the front axle has been changed from original... I am probably the fourth or fifth owner of this rig... A lot of modification has been done to it... As I am semi-restoring this vehicle, I finding things that make me scratch my head...

On to the axle... I have not pulled off the passenger side tire yet, but I will check for a wheel spacer, offset rim, or something along those lines... The frame does not look bent... The shackles and hangers look relatively straight... The front brakes have been changed over to disc brakes... It's like the axle is from some other make of vehicle but the spring holders on the axle were welded in the wrong place, not allowing the axle to be centered on the vehicle...

I will keep investigating and let you guys know the outcome...

Thanks for all of the tips...

 

[harleydragon]

that could be the problem...measure each side from the spring over to the brake disc and see if they are the same