trac bar

[84 cj7]

I recently purchased a 84 CJ7 it has a 4 in lift i replaced all tie rods, new steering box bushing and shackles trying to get rid of the play floating in the steering. I was told to put a trac bar on it and that would solve the problem. They didnt start installing them until 86 or so. Was wondering if that will work or is there something else i can do.The person that did the lift on this jeep didnt do it right the springs were rubbing against the shackle and were binding and i think the sway bar links are to short .just trying to get it right and it to steer better. It also has a really wide tire on it which doesnt help.

 

[PaRenegade]

Have your front end aligned. I'll bet they tell you your caster is off too.
Trac bar??? Jeeps never had trac bars, and those are used to keep the axles in line in a coil spring suspension. Your leaf springs are the "trac bars" on a Jeep.

 

[Torxhead]

The joints on your rod to the steering box could be shot, plus it sounds like the shackle bushings are either incorrect or bad also. The Saginaw steering box is a very stout unit, but that could be an issue too. If you replaced the tie rod and drag link with oem style units that can be a problem with oversize tires.

 

[Old Dog]

as said above leaf springs do NOT use trac bars.
you need to keep checking till you find what's wore out.

 

[MN CJ7]

Get a helper to wiggle the steering wheel back and forth..... Look for what appears to be loose.

Steering boxes can have internal play....

Tilt steering columbs have a nylon spheer with Omega Spring twisted and can have lots of internal play. This can be repairs and improves steering a bunch....Cheap to do but will take a few hours. I did a write up 5 years or so and could find it again. When wheel moves the play will be in the steering columb rod and not steering box on frame rail

If above looks good ck the tie rods ends for play or loose fittings.

BUMP STEER..... with a 4" lift the arm from steering box to passenger wheel is often at Steep Angle and is best to be FLAT. With each bump in the road and ANGLE & LENGTH of this rod changes with road holes and bumps..... they call this BUMP STEER. Tie rod Flip will be the best fix for this.

FRONT SHACKLES
Longer shackels for more lift are big issue. IF more than 1" from stock it will rotate the top of front axle back... This takes out the caster angle and it will not drive well or self center the steering wheel going down the road. Long shackles are a no no. Use HD Shackels that are very close to stock lenght.... stock is like 3" (no positive did not look up)

Front toe in
Pick a thread location you can measure the distance between both front tires. Measure the front of tire and the back of tire..... The front measurement shoudl be 1/8 to 1/4" less. This is toe in and since you did some tie rod work... maybe the toe in was not set. If you need to change there is a rod in front that attaches to both front tires and can change their toe in with a few twists of the connection sheeth.


That should get you very close to good steering....

I drive with 2 finger at 70mph.... Tie rod is not flat and could use a tie rod flip.... I have 2.5" springs and 1' body lift.... so with your 4" lift you tie rod angle would be more off.

JeepForum had sticky on top about Bump Steer and Steering issues with hundres of posts and pics... would also be good source of info. If you need more or the direct link just post up and let me know.

 

[BajaEdition]

with a 4 inch lift I would have the caster checked
I can almost guarantee the geometry is off and that is why it wanders

next we have a great article in a sticky here about steering problems, it is a great read that will show you where to look step by step.

 

[MN CJ7]

with a 4 inch lift I would have the caster checked
I can almost guarantee the geometry is off and that is why it wanders

next we have a great article in a sticky here about steering problems, it is a great read that will show you where to look step by step.

Baja,

If you do not mind.... I have a question on this. Stock springs, minor lift 1-2.5, and larger lift like a 4" spring lift are still springs. I would guess the bottom of springs where the axle spring perches mount are very similar and "considered to be flat or horizontal. I also imply stock lenght shackles. That is how my 2.5" lift the springs are flat / horizontal and so are the front spring perches and the back axle perches are also flat.

I have not seen many 4" lift.... can we infer that the high lift springs have so much lift that the bottom of springs, axle spring perches are NO LONGER FLAT.

So.... I have pretty decent grasp on what can mess up. Can you please tell me more about why a 4" spring lift ONLY would mess up the caster or
rotate the axle during the mounting to springs that took out caster or added toooo much caster.

Thanks,




poster...
Harbor Freight has a cheap little angle finder with a magnetic base. Good to ck the caster on front end. Also good to ck the rear axle and transmisison..... Caster is 5-6 deg range and the rear axle/Transmission should have the same angle. DaveBusa has a nice, very nice, picture showing the rear drive set up.... both ends should be horizontal or close to horizontal and the same angle. SAme angles set on rear will keep the drive shaft from vibration on higher speeds and or failing due to binding. You have lots of lift and may have special rear drive shaft to make this work. Pic of shackles, front drive axle and drive shaft, and rear axle & Transmission & drive shaft. I would also take some pics of you front tie rod and shafts

 

[BajaEdition]

they do not include the wedges for nothing in a lift kit, well a god lift kit, cheap ones do not have them
If the old ones would work then why do they include them?
I am offering advice here based on experience, when lifting a leaf spring Jeep 4 inches it is best to reset the caster
Jeeps have a very simple steering system, and it relies on a bit of caster to cause steering stability, the effects of caster can be seen best on a grocery cart, notice the axle is behind the pivot point, causing trail, and the cart tracks strait, with out this the wheels would turn whatever way they surface conditions told them to. Such as in a Jeep.
Now I am not going to get into the design of springs, the flatness of the mount and why a stock Jeep has shims to correct the caster, I am only going to offer, if you are having wander, then check the caster first.
worn parts are another point but many garage mechanics with little steering geometry training will search for a long time replacing a lot of good parts because of wander thinking they have steering slop. They are trying to cure a symptom and not the cause. To properly set up a steering system the angles need to be set to factory, once this is done you can find any other problem, a steering shop will tell you what else needs to be replaced, they are trained to just by getting under there and moving things around.

 

[84 cj7]

Thanks for all the info, my buddy thinks it has something to do with bushings becouse when u wiggle the steering wheel u can see the front shackles move a little.. So he says that when i drive the axle floats or moves with the body.A couple of people said a trac bar would help and other said something different. The steering is tight but it wanders alittle bit. I also have a wide tire on which don't help either. The jeep has about 100,000 miles so it need a little tlc so l started with tie rods, gear box, bushings which needed replaced and then an alignment and go from there.

 

[PaRenegade]

Two other things come to mind. You said he sees the shackle move when you turn the steering wheel. The box mount and the shackle mount are mounted together with the same bolts into the frame. Maybe they are loose. Just a thought. It could be just worn spring bushing causing that.
You also said it wanders. Have you checked or greased the front u-joints at the wheels? A frozen u-joint can sternly and suddenly throw your steering left and right, even when the hubs are unlocked. This issue drove me nuts one year and I'd have bet money against it being the problem because it just made no sense to me. but it was.

 

[Old Dog]

i replaced bushing and shackles It also has a really wide tire on it which doesnt help.

did you replace all the bushings or just the spring bushings?
How wide of a tire and what brand are we talking about?
one more thing how long are your shackles?

 

[jeepardy]

YJ's came with trac bars, still leaf spring suspension. If you think it will improve the handling, Id go ahead and install one. I have 4" lift springs and they do rock a little side to side when turning the steering wheel. I have plans to install a track bar but want one that I can disconnect when wheeling. Something like this-JKS Front Telescoping Trackbar for YJ But have plans to fab my own
http://www.knowwhere2jeep.com/jks-front-telescoping-track-bar-for-yj.html

 

[PaRenegade]

Not sure what the purpose of those ever were except maybe eliminate any spring wrap. Just an additional tie point I guess. Don't think it would be practicle on a CJ, jeepardy. And why would you want to disconnect it? It claims: "The JKS Telescoping Trackbar provides 31% more suspension articulation off-road without sacrificing the stability necessary for safe on-road operation. In fact, the amount of articulation prohibited by the OE front trackbar is comparable to the amount of articulation gained with JKS swaybar disconnects!"

 

[mtnwhlr]

YJ's came with trac bars, still leaf spring suspension. If you think it will improve the handling, Id go ahead and install one. I have 4" lift springs and they do rock a little side to side when turning the steering wheel. I have plans to install a track bar but want one that I can disconnect when wheeling. Something like this-JKS Front Telescoping Trackbar for YJ But have plans to fab my own

Yes the yj had a trac bar. A freind of mine did a 4in lift on his yj and it handeled real bad. He took out the trac bar and it fixed it. I would bet the po didn't put the shims in to correct the castor and that is why you are having the problems you are.