Transfer case shifting blues

[wilkinwm]

Good evening. I have a '75 CJ5 , Stock engine and Transmission /Transfer Case . Last year it would not shift into 4h, so I took it to a shop who said "Oh yes, we can fix your jeep!" I told them there was something wrong with the Transfer Case as it wouldn't go into gear.

They said because I put a 3.5 in lift, black diamond springs and shocks, the Transfer Case shifter was hitting the front of the "hole" so it would not go into gear. They took out the stock shifter and put in twin sticks. I thought that would be cool, just like my '41 MB (sort of). Still had problems shifting and asked if they even looked at the Transfer Case or checked the gear oil. Nope was their answer.

So this year rolls around and we are getting ready for a 3 week vacation through Yellowstone, Devils Tower, Mt. Rushmore. Taking the CJ 'cause it goes better on the road than the '41. CJ was popping out of 2nd gear and still had shifting problems - getting in and out of 4h.

Different shop - a Transmission specialty and auto repair place. They had the jeep for a month! Replaced the 2nd gear (I think) and went all thru the Transmission and Transfer Case . So this past Monday I was going to try it out since it was towed home and parked after they had worked on it. To my surprise when I locked the Warn hubs, it would not shift into 4 anything. Stopping and backing slowly, like getting out of 4L sometimes, I did get it into 4h - but a bear getting it back out. Back to the shop.

Today they called and said, "Yep, with the hubs locked it won't shift, but with the hubs unlocked it shifts just fine - not the Transfer Case !! We stand by our work! Oh and we cannot fix or even think of why it doesn't work. Maybe gear mismatched or not the same diameter tires!! (brand new tires they day I got it out of the shop and it worked fine for the last 10-15 years!! and you guys are the only ones that have had anything opened up - NOT Gear mismatch!) Thank you very much." I'll go get it on Thursday.

Sorry for the long winded post, but where do I go from here? If the hubs are not locked, the Transfer Case shifts fine (they say). Lock the hubs and it won't hardly shift. Broken something in the front axle? Is there a simple way for me to check things out? Jack up the front end or one side or?? and turn the wheel and watch the drive shaft? Not a mechanic but I can do most things on my jeeps and follow directions fairly well. Only 3 weeks until our trip and we really need this jeep (it will do 60 ish vs the '41 at about 40-45 mph, people get mad cause we are going so slow). Thank you //Bill

 

[jp360cj]

Still twin stick?

Are you trying to shift into 4wd while sitting still? If so, try rolling forward and shift.

Does the rear shift fine in hi, N, and low? Will the front shift into low? What happens if you put it in 4wd then lock the hubs?

If you jack up the front end (jack stands under the axle), lock the hubs, and turn the driveshaft and/or tires, you can probably tell if there's an issue with the front axle.


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[Lumpy Grits]

What 360 sez is the way to do it.
Walking speed or LESS. Try shifting into 4WD-HIGH.
Sound like you may well have a small-claims court case with this last place.
You really should have driven the jeep, before pay'n them for the work.
Look hard for a CJ club near you. Get in touch with them, and see who they recommend for this type of work.
Are you SURE-Both front hubs are work'n 'rite'?
PLX keep us updated.
LG

 

[wilkinwm]

Thanks guys for the replies. Yes I should have driven it before taking it home but I was pressed for time. When they looked at it this time they were still nice, just didn't sound like they wanted to work on it!! OK - Brought it home tonight and they still say gear mis-match! I've owned this for over 20 years and no problems until now.

jp360cj - Yes, twin sticks, JB Custom Fab.
First gear in my driveway and trying to get front into high (hubs locked).

Rear does go nicely into H N and L. Front will go into low. Tried into 4wd then locked the hubs. Hubs turned just fine, no weird feel or sounds. Could not shift front out of 4wd. Well, I can, just not right!

I put rear into N and then tried front (pills were removed) shifts nicely. Put rear into gear and it does not like going in or out of front gears H, N or L.
Will dig out the jack stands this week-end and let you know what I find then.

Lumpy Grits - I was just barely moving when trying to shift. At one point I was in Rev. trying to get front out of gear (the way you sometimes have to get it out of 4 low).

With the hubs not locked, it does shift nicely and so what they actually worked on works. They only heard Transmission /transf and not the whole shifting part. Of course I'm sure they did not test it. If they had, they would have said something else was wrong. I would hope anyway.

I was searching for 4x4 mechanics this morning - actually would like to find "the old guy with a shop in his back yard". Next is to try and find a club. I believe thate are a could in the area, just not very active.

Not sure how to "test" the hubs. They turn easily, like they always have. Guess I can take them apart this week-end too. Should be serviced before driving from Oregon to S. Dacota anyway.

One other thing I noticed tonight. I'm on a gravel drive. Steering is kind of jerky, like when in 4wd on pavement. Also when I put the cluch in it stopped. Was just barely moving but it did not seem to coast that little bit. Just felt strange and not right.

Thanks for the replies. Will let yo know what I find. //Bill

 

[mtnwhlr]

I'm in the glass business and all the young guys only know how to work on the new stuff. If something old comes in they don't have a clue and look to a old timer like me as to how to do it. I think it is the same way with everything automotive. All they have been trained on and worked on is newer stuff and don't have a clue on this old stuff. You need to find a old timer to help you if the shop has all younger guys move on.

 

[jp360cj]

Thanks guys for the replies. Yes I should have driven it before taking it home but I was pressed for time. When they looked at it this time they were still nice, just didn't sound like they wanted to work on it!! OK - Brought it home tonight and they still say gear mis-match! I've owned this for over 20 years and no problems until now.



jp360cj - Yes, twin sticks, JB Custom Fab.

First gear in my driveway and trying to get front into high (hubs locked).



Rear does go nicely into H N and L. Front will go into low. Tried into 4wd then locked the hubs. Hubs turned just fine, no weird feel or sounds. Could not shift front out of 4wd. Well, I can, just not right!



I put rear into N and then tried front (pills were removed) shifts nicely. Put rear into gear and it does not like going in or out of front gears H, N or L.

Will dig out the jack stands this week-end and let you know what I find then.



Lumpy Grits - I was just barely moving when trying to shift. At one point I was in Rev. trying to get front out of gear (the way you sometimes have to get it out of 4 low).



With the hubs not locked, it does shift nicely and so what they actually worked on works. They only heard Transmission /transf and not the whole shifting part. Of course I'm sure they did not test it. If they had, they would have said something else was wrong. I would hope anyway.



I was searching for 4x4 mechanics this morning - actually would like to find "the old guy with a shop in his back yard". Next is to try and find a club. I believe thate are a could in the area, just not very active.



Not sure how to "test" the hubs. They turn easily, like they always have. Guess I can take them apart this week-end too. Should be serviced before driving from Oregon to S. Dacota anyway.



One other thing I noticed tonight. I'm on a gravel drive. Steering is kind of jerky, like when in 4wd on pavement. Also when I put the cluch in it stopped. Was just barely moving but it did not seem to coast that little bit. Just felt strange and not right.



Thanks for the replies. Will let yo know what I find. //Bill

I'm running the JB Fab twin stick on my Dana 20 too. Just for reference, if I'm moving with the hubs locked in, I can push the clutch in and shift the front or rear in or out pretty easy.

It just seems strange that it shifts fine unless the hubs are engaged. And that if you shift the front first the rear is hard to shift. It *should * be easier to shift with the hubs engaged because the gears in the case are spinning at the same speed.

To test the hubs, unlock them, put front output in N, and try to spin the driveshaft. Repeat with only the left locked, then only the right locked. Driveshaft should spin. Lock both hubs and driveshaft shouldn't spin.

Quick rundown on how the tcase works that may or may not help...the input gear is on the back of the Transmission and spins any time the Transmission is spinning. This gear is always engaged to the intermediate, so its also spinning any time the Transmission spins. The rear sliding gear is spline to the rear output shaft and spins when the rear driveshaft spins. To engage the rear output, the rear slider moves forward to engage the back of the input gear (hi range) or backwards to engage the rear portion of the intermediate gear (low range). The front sliding gear is splined to the front output shaft and spins when the front driveshaft spins. To engage the front output, the sliding gear moves forward to engage the the front portion of the intermediate gear (hi range) or backwards to engage the rear portion on the intermediate gear (low range). These are 2 different sets of teeth on both the slider gears and the intermediate gear.




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[Lumpy Grits]

Hub ck-Lift both front wheels off of ground.
One wheel at a time-spin the wheel with hub unlocked. Look in the steering knuckle. Does the axle turn(it shouldn't)?
Now-engage the hub and spin the wheel. You should see the axle turn in the knuckle.
Repeat for the other wheel.
With both hubs locked-You should see the drive shaft turn when you spin the wheels.
LG