Trying to get a little more articulation

[texas78cj]

so currently i have a 78 CJ5 with a 302 v8 swap with stock axles and trany with 33s and a 2.5 in rough country lift + 1in body originally my dad and i had restored it for my 16th birthday and it was just ment to look cool and be a daily driver kinda to and from school but just as any 16 year old with 4wd and a v8 i pushed it to its limits to say the least so here i am almost 7 years down the road and iv now got my ram 1500 and my jeeps been in kinda a slow rebuild process for the past for years sitting in my parents garage so getting to the point when i was younger taking my jeep out i was never really satisfied with the off road performance so i am constantly reading about things people have done but im wondering what some of yall might be running and mods yall have made to help out im not looking for some kind of off pure road beast im just looking to be able too keep up off road one off the biggest problems i feel im having is i dont feel like i get hardly any articulation out of the suspension so any insight would be much appreaciated

 

[BusaDave9]

The best mod for articulation is to get anti-sway bar disconnects.

Also make sure your shocks are not limiting your travel. As a test remove your shocks and drive your jeep into a ditch to compress opposite corners.

Measure the distance between the shock mounts.
Then go here to find the correct shocks: http://www.gorancho.com/assets/catalog/Specifications.pdf
Even following the manufactures recommendations your shocks can limit your travel.

 

[Torxhead]

I have never been big on having lots of suspension flex, with leaf springs you can only do so much. Adding at least a locker in the rear will really help keep you moving. When you are ready to get serious, get one for the front, then all you pretty much need is one wheel on the ground. Although sometimes I have had issues doing that. Low tire air pressure is also a big help off road.

 

[PaRenegade]

I'd have to disagree Torx. While lockers offer a major improvement, they won't help squat if you can't get those tires to the ground. That's where coils and links out shine leaf springs.
So I'd agree with what Dave said and I'd add, to get rid of the old RC springs and get some new OME, BDS, or RE springs and bushings, and also maybe lengthen your shackles to maybe 4" (b2b) ones with some beef and beefier hangers as well.
Whatever you do it's not going to be cheap.

 

[jdarg]

i dont feel like i get hardly any articulation out of the suspension so any insight would be much appreaciated

Don't "feel like" or aren't? Are you hanging tires in the air so you can no longer move or no?

You never said whether you want to spend $200 or $2000 either. That's often the biggest piece of the equation.

As pointed out, if you are on a budget, I'd start with discos if you have sway bars. Or just dump the swap bars in the garbage as some people tend to do. Then reassess where that puts you.

If you still aren't happy, a rear locker will have a MUCH bigger impact than switching to some other brand or height of spring. Even if you get enough flex to get two tires on the ground where previously you would lift one tire, there is still VERY little traction on one of them so it almost doesn't matter, unless you added a LOT of flex, which is not gonna happen from different brands of 2.5" springs.

Now that said, in my opinion a lot of springs, even brand spankin new ones, can be improved by pulling them apart, getting them as smooth as possible, adding grease or full length poly sleeves in between them, radiusing the ends of each leaf, and making sure your clamps aren't too tight or too loose. You won't make a crappy spring a world beater, but you will know you've squeezed everythign you can out of that setup for almost no investment except time, sanding discs, paint, and grease/leaf inserts. Plan on repeating this as often as you need to. Also make sure you shackes and main eye bolts aren't too tight or too loose. Factory torque figures for these bolts is simply too much and fights the springs natural movement IMHO. Nylock nuts are your friend here. I'd get the front as loose as you can before the steering gets too bad for your taste, and then torque the rear to the same or even a tad looser.

 

[Old Dog]

All good advise. As said those RC springs will probably never flex.

 

[texas78cj]

at this point money really isnt that big of an issue lol everyone has a limit but i think ive put off lifting my truck till i get this jeep the way i want it so i think as long as i stay under 2k ill be fine as far as quick disconnects i already have them and even disconnected the springs didnt give much and iv never really taken the springs off i havent really tried but i have read some about people replacing the front shock tower with one off an old f150 and i juggled around the idea of a coil conversion but heard a lot of good and bad from that and iv read about soa kits and my feeling with that is if my springs dont flex as is how does an soa kit help i think what most people seem to have the most success with is the cj to yj spring conversion so i was thinking that with the f150 towers might be the best all around option for on/off road like i said im not looking to make a full on rock crawler im just looking for a good medium and to get the most out of my jeep
so figured start with a good lift

 

[Old Dog]

If your happy with 2 1/2 lift than OME (old man emu ) is probably the best for flex. The ford shock towers will also help if you get the right length shocks to go with them.
IMO front and rear lockers are a must, but now we are over the 2k level.

 

[texas78cj]

i heard a lot of great things about the ome springs bit looking at the shackle mounts in the kit i feel like some of the other kits have better brackets and shackles any suggestions? and the 2.5 lift i think im happy with is there a need for more?

ya i intend on doing lockers but i gotta decide if i need beefier axles
i believe the rear is an AMC20 and found out they came stock with two piece axle shafts lol so iv since put solid axles in and the front i wanna say is the Dana 30 and the other mess im gonna have with all that is choosing the right gearing for on/off road

and with the AMC20 iv blown the spider gears once and got so much torque the spline shaft twisted so bad it split in two so idk if that had more to do with being young and stupid or if its something im gonna need to worry about again

 

[IOPort51]

look at the shocks first. they do not have as much travel as you think they do, 6 or 7 inches in. at best and much less at worst. Your axles can travel upward about 3.5 inches, with the lift you have, before you hit the bump stops so you need at least 3 3/4 in to avoid bottoming out the shocks.

You can see how the bottom shock mount is bent down?
this is the result of a short shock.

so what ever travel your shock has minus the upward travel gives you the possible downward travel. In this case 3 to 3.5 inches at best.

this will give you specs on a few shocks, closed and open length. I have skyjacker N8023 s on the front and N 8058 s on the rear. these, at this point, cover the range of available motion with my 2.5 inch lift. I have about 3.5 up and 5.5 down available, I don.t think the leaf springs will allow the axle to drop 5.5 inches so I have a little room on the top and bottom with the stock shock tower and spring shock mounts.

If you are going to do a axle swap with lockers and a gear change you need to find a few more Yankee dollars. 2K will be just a good start.

 

[BusaDave9]

SOA sounds easy but it lifts you 6 inches. That's way too much. At that height you introduce problems with the steering and pinion angles and your brake lines will be too short. After you address those issues you'll realize a SOA lift is not nearly as easy and cheep as people think.

Since your on a budget you'll have to hold off on the lockers. With open differentials good articulation is more important. You really must have the weight evenly distributed over all 4 tires.

The AMC20 can be a good axle but you must replace the axle shafts with one piece axles. The Dana 30 isn't bad either. I still have both and I have 36 inch tires with lockers.

 

[PaRenegade]

i heard a lot of great things about the ome springs bit looking at the shackle mounts in the kit i feel like some of the other kits have better brackets and shackles any suggestions? and the 2.5 lift i think im happy with is there a need for more?

Don't base your decisions on pictures in a book or website. These are notoriously incorrect. What you see and what you get can be 2 different things.
You also don't have to buy a "kit". You can buy the pieces you need. That's the direction I went because some of the parts in the kit I had or didn't need. I ended up getting the OME springs (I used YJ heavy rear springs front and rear #CS036) and the bushings for them at Quadratec. Mounts from M.O.R.E. Shackles from Warrior Products. And greasable bolts, sleeves, and spring plates from Okay4WD. That ran roughly a grand, so you could still have enough cash for one locker and maybe gears.

 

[texas78cj]

im not trying to get this whole jeep put back together for under 2k thats just what i feel is more than a fair price for the suspension part of it 2k for a drive line rebuild is unreasonable and i know that so the lockers and new drive shafts and either axle rebuild and gearing or axle swap is a separate budget

so right now i think my plan is

crabtreetool cj to yj shackle hangers

ome springs heavy rear and either medium or heavy front idk i just dont want it to stiff but i know iv got the v8 swap so idk if medium is to soft

maybe the ubolt skid plates from rocky road

and higher shock towers for the front if someone has a brand to suggest i would be great full iv seen the f150 and rocky road makes some im just not sure the quality of either sucks you cant just walk into a store anymore and look at things lol its all gotta be special ordered

and if anyone can suggest bushings i know there a hundreds of brands lol

thanks guys for all the help its greatly appreciated lol like i said iv done this build once already i really wanna get it right this time and wanna get the most out of my jeep

 

[cj7inthetwigs]

im not trying to get this whole jeep put back together for under 2k thats just what i feel is more than a fair price for the suspension part of it 2k for a drive line rebuild is unreasonable and i know that so the lockers and new drive shafts and either axle rebuild and gearing or axle swap is a separate budget

so right now i think my plan is

crabtreetool cj to yj shackle hangers

ome springs heavy rear and either medium or heavy front idk i just dont want it to stiff but i know iv got the v8 swap so idk if medium is to soft

maybe the ubolt skid plates from rocky road

and higher shock towers for the front if someone has a brand to suggest i would be great full iv seen the f150 and rocky road makes some im just not sure the quality of either sucks you cant just walk into a store anymore and look at things lol its all gotta be special ordered

and if anyone can suggest bushings i know there a hundreds of brands lol

thanks guys for all the help its greatly appreciated lol like i said iv done this build once already i really wanna get it right this time and wanna get the most out of my jeep

Well said sir,well said.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[jdarg]

im not trying to get this whole jeep put back together for under 2k thats just what i feel is more than a fair price for the suspension part of it 2k for a drive line rebuild is unreasonable and i know that so the lockers and new drive shafts and either axle rebuild and gearing or axle swap is a separate budget

so right now i think my plan is

crabtreetool cj to yj shackle hangers

ome springs heavy rear and either medium or heavy front idk i just dont want it to stiff but i know iv got the v8 swap so idk if medium is to soft

maybe the ubolt skid plates from rocky road

and higher shock towers for the front if someone has a brand to suggest i would be great full iv seen the f150 and rocky road makes some im just not sure the quality of either sucks you cant just walk into a store anymore and look at things lol its all gotta be special ordered

and if anyone can suggest bushings i know there a hundreds of brands lol

thanks guys for all the help its greatly appreciated lol like i said iv done this build once already i really wanna get it right this time and wanna get the most out of my jeep

I would skip the Rocky Road stuff IMHO. Use the F150 shock towers. The OME springs should come w/ bushings but I've only used their coils. I know their shocks do though. I still think going from 2.5" to 2.5" is kinda like flushing money though. The flex won't be THAT much better from the OME springs. I agree w/ other comments that bigger gains will come from proper sized shocks. Otherwise I'd be sinking that 2K into 1 pc shafts and lockers. Do yourself a favor - find someone w/ an RTI ramp so you can quantify your changes before and after. You might find just disconnecting a shock thats too short will give you a lot more flex on the ramp.

 

[Old Dog]

For the money I don't think you can beat the ford shock towers. I think mine were $13.00 each at the stealership.

 

[PaRenegade]

The OME springs do Not come with bushings, you need to buy them separate and they come for either regular or greasable bolts (#SB57 or #SB87). These are designed to work with the springs so I wouldn't just buy any 1 1/4" bushing. They also come with one sleeve (the stationary one) so you'll need the other 8 for the shackle ends.

I think Jim at Crabtree may have suspended making his mounts for a while. You may want to check with him. If they're not available I'd go with the MORE mounts, they are good quality mounts.