Viewing the World from flat on your back

[DHugg]

I am just getting serious about surveying the 1980 CJ7 I bought ten days ago. Things continue to surprise me, like the rubber tubing from the right top of the AMC20 rear axle. It ends in oblivion. The illustration I have shows a connect to the backside of the Transfer Case , but not on my Jeep!

Why in the world are the rear drums held on by three Phillips screws, instead of spring clips like all the other brake jobs I remember? Gonna be a bitch getting those screws out if they are rusted even a little!

I see a bunch of lines from the rear area of the fuel tank; didn't have time to get to then to trace them, but one or more look like air/vacuum/vapor lines. Can anyone comment?

I did trace the fuel line from the carb back to the tank. Looks like I have a leak where the steel is replaced by a rubber flex-line and a clamp. Is that a possible reason for the carb/fuel system to lose 'prime' after sitting two days? Takes two 4-second starter bursts to get fuel to the carb; four bursts if it has not run in 4-5 days.

Anyone reading this has spent more time under a Jeep than I. While I'm here on my back, I'll just look around for trouble spots. Please tell me where I can most profitably use my time.

But under a CJ makes a great place to hide from honey-do's. Nobody wants my help when my cloths are greasy and my hands begrimed from honest work. I love it!

bon chance,

DHugg (pictures tomorrow of how bad the two rear brakes were)

 

[Petescj]

Those lines that are vaccum lines go to the canister in your engine compartment. Should be on the driver side bottom of the fender.

Your fuel line is leaking in the same spot mine just sprung a leak and the answere to that question is yes. If you have the stock Carter carb it also usually takes a few pumps to get it going.

 

[BajaEdition]

Welcome to Jeep ownership, commonly called, "what in the F(*& did the preveious owner do that sh&* for?" ou are going find a lot of kitbashed stuff and will end up understanding the ways and whys soon enough.
Jeeps are fun for 2 reasons, we get to wheel them, and we get to feel like we are manly men working on them. They are a great hobby and after a few years you kinda wonder why you never did it before.
OH the best 2 days in a Jeepers life is the day he buys his first Jeep, and the day he see's his son buy his first Jeep. ( it is the ultimate punishment for everything that f)*(&g kid did to you as a teenager.
Have fun, they are great fun and a great puzzle.

 

[IOPort51]

I am just getting serious about surveying the 1980 CJ-7 I bought ten days ago. Things continue to surprise me, like the rubber tubing from the right top of the AMC 20 rear axle. It ends in oblivion. The illustration I have shows a connect to the backside of the transfer case, but not on my Jeep!

Why in the world are the rear drums held on by three Phillips screws, instead of spring clips like all the other brake jobs I remember? Gonna be a bitch getting those screws out if they are rusted even a little!

I see a bunch of lines from the rear area of the fuel tank; didn't have time to get to then to trace them, but one or more look like air/vacuum/vapor lines. Can anyone comment?

I did trace the fuel line from the carb back to the tank. Looks like I have a leak where the steel is replaced by a rubber flex-line and a clamp. Is that a possible reason for the carb/fuel system to lose 'prime' after sitting two days? Takes two 4-second starter bursts to get fuel to the carb; four bursts if it has not run in 4-5 days.

Anyone reading this has spent more time under a Jeep than I. While I'm here on my back, I'll just look around for trouble spots. Please tell me where I can most profitably use my time.

But under a CJ makes a great place to hide from honey-do's. Nobody wants my help when my cloths are greasy and my hands begrimed from honest work. I love it!

bon chance,

DHugg (pictures tomorrow of how bad the two rear brakes were)

Screws in the brake drums; your right they are a PITA. I recommend this procedure. Tools needed, impact driver( one of those screw driver looking things that you hit with a hammer) it will have an assortment of screw drivers with it and a ¼ inch drive socket will fit it, penetrating oil, propane/mapp torch.
I use penetrating oil that is 50% acetone and 50% ATF it works great. If you can't break the screws loose with the impact driver dry use the penetrant, apply it every 5 minutes for 1/2 hour or so, try again. If the impact does not work now use the torch, concentrate the heat on the head until it looks like it is starting to glow and use the impact again. The heat should be reserved for last because it will pretty much destroy any temper there is in the machine screw.
The impact driver will become one of your favorite tools so find a good one, craftsman is good, and I find it to be the best way to remove stubborn torx screws without stripping the head.
have fun!!

Oh yea , one more thing, you may want to use a bit of anti sieze on them when you put them back and I would put them back, not sure why i would but I would.

 

[Old Dog]

Most of your questions have been answered except this one.
The hose on the axle tube is your breather tube. There should be one from the tc also. Just be sure they run higher than any water you plan to play in.
As for the 3 screws, if you get them out without breaking them, Throw them away. The wheel holds the drums on just fine.

Have fun and enjoy.

 

[DHugg]

Going to school on all the good advice. Thanks!

The world looks gloomy from beneath my 1980 CJ7 just now. I am pulling the brakes because of a leak..... thought it was the wheel cylinder, but NOPE!


Now I find that the leak is from the left rear axle flange where it joins the brake backing plate.


Luckily, I captured a good tutorial about pulling down a rear axle, with photos. Maybe I can get the leak stopped, check/repack the rear bearings, and be a better man for the experience.

BTW, I've made two trips to O'Reilly's Auto Parts here in Gulfport, MS, and found everything I needed, including an impact wrench/screw driver and new shoes and wheel cylinders for the back brakes. I suspect they haven't seen the last of me!

And tomorrow, as I lay on my back fitting up the cleaned brake parts, I can truly say "THINGS ARE LOOKING UP!"

DHugg

 

[baker9713]

As a CJ owner you should find a good parts guy (or girl) at your local parts store.

 

[DHugg]

Mike, I noted today that they open at 0730 (2.5 hours after I wake up). It is a pair of gals working the counter. I expect they'll do a good job finding what I need. I am beginning to wonder if our major junk yard was under water during hurricane Katrina. That could make a big difference in my future.

Thanks for the note.

DHugg

 

[IOPort51]

Mike, I noted today that they open at 0730 (2.5 hours after I wake up). It is a pair of gals working the counter. I expect they'll do a good job finding what I need. I am beginning to wonder if our major junk yard was under water during hurricane Katrina. That could make a big difference in my future.

Thanks for the note.

DHugg

Two women that early in the morning? Good luck with that.
As far as the junk yard being under water, you were probably going to end up under water anyway. Just think of it as a “Pre disaster” disaster.

 

[DHugg]

Despite lying on my back, things are NOT looking up!

On my 1980 CJ7 with what I take to be AMC20 axle, I started out to overhaul the brakes. It has turned into a "drain the swamp" story.

I got the right axle castellated nut off, after buying a 24 inch stilson wrench; couldn't find a 1 and 3/8 socket. My biggest is 1 and 1/4.

Now I am stuck with the left castellated nut. It isn't rusted. It is just jammed on so tight I can't start it, even after ATF and acetone (which seems to separate like oil and vinegar when I let it sit) and careful thorough heating with a propane torch.

I have in the past started reluctant castellated nuts by tapping with a brass rod against one of the nut flanges. This one seems to me to be so tight, I would be kissing my sister to try it; nothing good gonna come of that.

I suppose I must go out and borrow a gorilla just like the one that tightened both these axle nuts. After the nut breaks loose, I still gotta get the axle hub off, and after first efforts with a hub puller, that doesn't look to be fun either.

Anyone with any ideas please jump in. I only wanted to overhaul my brakes. Was that too much to ask?

DHugg

 

[IOPort51]

Going to school on all the good advice. Thanks!

The world looks gloomy from beneath my 1980 CJ-7 just now. I am pulling the brakes because of a leak..... thought it was the wheel cylinder, but NOPE!


Now I find that the leak is from the left rear axle flange where it joins the brake backing plate.


Luckily, I captured a good tutorial about pulling down a rear axle, with photos. Maybe I can get the leak stopped, check/repack the rear bearings, and be a better man for the experience.

BTW, I've made two trips to O'Reilly's Auto Parts here in Gulfport, MS, and found everything I needed, including an impact wrench/screw driver and new shoes and wheel cylinders for the back brakes. I suspect they haven't seen the last of me!

And tomorrow, as I lay on my back fitting up the cleaned brake parts, I can truly say "THINGS ARE LOOKING UP!"

DHugg

What tutorial are you using to do the axle seal replacement??

 

[IOPort51]

http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f2/axle-seal-replacement-2241/

if you haven't read this it may be interesting.

 

[DHugg]

IOPort51: Just-in-time post. I read the piece you threaded and single-piece axles sound like good sense, 'specially if I already have her on jacks and ready to pull the AMC20 hubs.

PS: I never want to take these 2-piece axles out again! I used 2 air hammers, a 2ft stilson, propane torch, penetrating oil, and the help of a good friend just to get one nut off the right axle. I found two references in forums saying "tighten the nuts as hard as you can to prevent leaks or hub-spin". That isn't good engineering when only King Kong can keep your axle from leaking or self-distructing.

Thanks for the good reference.

DHugg
Gulfport, MS

 

[dalefan88]

sounds like a true new cj owner lol. when i got mine if i new i was doin something to it i would go out and spray the out of it with pb blaster and let it sit over night. this is our third vehicle so we can do that. you will have alot of ?s and everyone on here will help you get it fixed.

 

[IOPort51]

I guess I am still kind of wondering why you would take the flange off, I think I would have pulled the axle and taken it to a shop to have the seals and the bearings replaced . I like the way CJ suggests to pull the axle out, I will have to try that the next time I have to pull axles.
For something that everyone is afraid will come loose and fail they are damn hard to break loose.
Repeat this to yourself over and over when things get challenging.
“This is my hobby, I do this for fun” “this is my hobby, I do this for fun”
. This works for me most of the time. If it was easy everybody would have one.

 

[DHugg]

Re: Dealing with the difficulties as opposed to farming it out

IOPort51, I read the message in your message. But genetics prevents me from letting anyone else do these types of jobs. My Grandfather used to tear up US Government checks, back when $280 was a year's earning, when the Fed tried to pay him for plowing under surplus crops. And he did the plowing under at threat of arrest, under the scrutiny of a Federal marshal.

I am just that stubborn to want to see the insides of this axle and hub by my own hands. I did get the 1 and 5/16th nut off yesterday, and I will see the bearings and oil seal next week.

Meanwhile, Christmas in November! The Flaming River steering rod arrived today. Life again is full of promise.

DHugg in rainy Gulfport, MS

 

[IOPort51]

Re: Dealing with the difficulties as opposed to farming it out

IOPort51, I read the message in your message. But genetics prevents me from letting anyone else do these types of jobs. My Grandfather used to tear up US Government checks, back when $280 was a year's earning, when the Fed tried to pay him for plowing under surplus crops. And he did the plowing under at threat of arrest, under the scrutiny of a Federal marshal.

I am just that stubborn to want to see the insides of this axle and hub by my own hands. I did get the 1 and 5/16th nut off yesterday, and I will see the bearings and oil seal next week.

Meanwhile, Christmas in November! The Flaming River steering rod arrived today. Life again is full of promise.

DHugg in rainy Gulfport, MS

as long as your having fun, thats all that matters.

 

[DHugg]

Here again am I, flat on my back beneath a 1980 CJ7 , trying to set the world, my world, right.Shipping notice said that the AGR Performance Super Pump and the Steering Box II were inbound. The Flaming River adjustable shaft is here. I gotta get the old stuff of the Jeep, cleaned, repaint the rez, and be ready for build-up. The Dispenser Of All Earthly Delights has promised our grandson a Christmas trip to Pirates Cove Po'Boys in Long Beach with the soft top off. This is Sunday morning's view; the US Constitution guarantees us the right to worship God as we see fit, and this is as good a church as any, better than most.

I've bitched and moaned about the tight AMC20 axle nuts, but now I know the cause. I've found two posts on Jeep forums, by reputable mechanics, that advise jam-tightening these nuts "as tight as possible", in one case up to 250 foot-pounds of torque. The purpose is to prevent bearing binding to the axle with attendant scoring of the axle shaft when the bearing race turns in its seat. Don't know how you do it, but my torque wrench doesn't go to 250FP. There have been, much appreciated, comments to me suggesting the nuclear option, a Superior or Moser single shaft swapout. That is good sense, but I want to get to disc brakes on the back and I am yet too green to the Ways Of Jeep to decide on best course of action. Putting off the decision by new axle housing gaskets and a rear drum rebuild buys me time to learn what I need to know (and avoids any more digs about how I shoulda bought a newer Jeep and saved money).

IMPORTANT! You are likely to have the Jeep up on jack stands, and with this much manhandling you could roll it off the stands. I block the front wheels with 4X4 blocks front and back whacked in tight, put the hydraulic jack (with rollers unobstructed) in place under modest lift pressure, and slide both big meats under the frame just forward of the fender well. I had a couple friends more than I now have who were killed, one losing a teenager, by cars coming down off the jacks.

For those who have an AMC 20 rear axle now, or in their future, the jammed nuts were removed with heat, penetrant oil, air impact hammer and a 24 inch Crescent wrench. The air hammer needed a 1-5/16 inch socket. I only found it at Sears, not Lowes, O'Reilly's, or Hudson Freight Tools, and it was 3/4 drive, for $18 bucks. With a 3/4 to 1/2 reduction, the long (18 inch) socket handle I have was too flexible to break the binding, so I got a 2 foot Crescent wrench for $25 at Harbor Freight Tools, with seemingly decent steel and jaws that closed completely parallel. When it is your turn to suffer the indignity of not being big or strong enough to turn this nut, build a 3 foot cheater-bar with a piece of heavy pipe, flattening one end up six-eight inches with a BFH so that the Crescent handle will fit inside, but not wobble inside the flattened tube. It will take some maneuvering to get a good grip from outside the fender well. I put the wheel nuts back on the axle flange to keep the threads intact, and used a crowbar as a brace.



The new steering box can't get here too soon!

Today I got some good news and some bad. The good news is that there was a new fuel pump installed when the AMC 304 crate engine went in, less than a thou ago. The bad news was that the oil pan seal install was a sloppy job; it is leaking 360. I'd rather get a new one=piece seal and good adhesive than tighten screws and live with some cheap-charlie throw-together. To add insult to injury, the oil pan drain plug is sealed with two steel flat washers. What kind of mechanic does that? No, don't help me.... is it one of the Qwik-Lube oil change chains?


So I am struggling a bit with parts of this lovely CJ-7 that were not handled the way I was brought up. But I am not disappointed in my purchase, not the least. And Christmas is coming; a chance to drink a few Christmas Spiced Beers, homebrew, with my two sons.


That'll take away all the frustration. Happy Thanksgiving, Jeepers.

DHugg here in Gulfport in Indian Summer (68 degrees)

 

[brian613]

what about using a torque multiplier to break the nuts loose? i know when i was in the army working on the bigger trucks we had to tighten some of those wheel nuts to 600+ foot pounds and the multiplier made quick work of it..James Morton X-4 Torque Multipliers manufactured by X4 Division of Gear/Tronics Industries Incorporated
i dont know how good these are from this place but the chart gives you a good idea on the input and output torque possibility's

 

[IOPort51]

what about using a torque multiplier to break the nuts loose? i know when i was in the army working on the bigger trucks we had to tighten some of those wheel nuts to 600+ foot pounds and the multiplier made quick work of it..James Morton X-4 Torque Multipliers manufactured by X4 Division of Gear/Tronics Industries Incorporated
i dont know how good these are from this place but the chart gives you a good idea on the input and output torque possibility's

for the price of the torque multiplier you could buy one piece axles w/ bearings, seals, a new differential and dinner for six at a good restaurant. the least expensive I found was a Stanley and it was about $600. A TM would be so cool when doing pinion crush sleeves. I have thought of building something with sprockets and a chain to do 6X, It would be a bit clunky but size is not an issue with what I have in mind.