Why Do Automatic?

[jzak]

I know this may ignite a massive debate, but i wanted to get the communities opinion on why a serious off-roader, especially someone who rock climbs would ever have an automatic Transmission ?

Is it as simple as Jeep owners who drive auto, can't drive stick, or is there some other advantage off-roading with an automatic Transmission i'm not aware of.

Just to clarify, i'm not talking about daily-driving a CJ to work. Obviously Auto would be better in that situation. I'm talking about CJ owners who go out to Moab on weekends to hang off boulders.

 

[caveman]

This is going to be a subject like, What's better, A 6 cylinder or an 8. Everybody will have a different reason why they like what they do. I think it's just boils down to personal preference. I converted my YJ-7 from a standard to an automatic for a couple of reasons. First, I was breaking front axles about every other time that I went out. I thought that the auto would be easier on them. Then I only broke one about every 5th time out. It helped but didn't cure the problem. Secondly. I was stalling it quite often trying to crawl slowly through real rough spots and over tough obstacles. This it cured. I never stall it any more. Lastly. I'm an old fat man that loves this hobby and bouncing over stuff so I don't stall it is quite uncomfortable for me. I don't bounce like I used to. With the auto I can ease up over obstacles as slow as my heart desires. Much more comfortable.

 

[Posi]

For rock crawling only, no debate.
Auto = easier to drive, and you don't need a third foot.
Manual = need a hand throttle, and geared lower then an auto, more difficult to drive.
Other then that, its personal preference.
I'm currently running an auto however, I prefer a stick.

 

[Fastatv]

^^^^^^^^ What both these guys ( above posts ) say. Primarily just easier to drive.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

OP-Have you ever driven an 'auto' in the rocks etc.
You would answer your own question then--
LG

 

[Woolyworm]

I agree with all the above - that's why I like my T-18 stick - for the challenge.


Wooly

 

[Hedgehog]

I have a huge prejudice against an automatic Transmission off road. But with all prejudices a thinking person understands that they can be unrealistic. For instance I am not a rock crawler where from what I'm understanding an automatic Transmission . can really shine. I had a Full sized Bronco with an automatic in it. We saw 192,000 miles together so I can say that there was time to fully evaluate the drive train. For me the problem with an automatic was that there was very little hold back, that is unless you dropped the Transmission down into first. If left in high with the OD engaged the thing would simply bump up through the gears and drive practically the same as it did in normal drive. I like a standard Transmission for the ability to drop it in low range, stick it in second and just creep along, no hurry, no thrashing and smashing just a consistent crawl, up hill, down hill, on the flats.

Maybe rock crawlers can answer this question for me. ..... An automatic Transmission runs through a torque converter. I understand that once there is movement in the Transmission the converter will lock in (sorta, lets be non technical here) and the vehicle will move. But what happens when the front tires are snubbed up against a rock or a curb for that matter and you can't get your vehicle to start moving. What then? How do you get things moving without burning things up?

 

[mriplaybass]

I have used both in the mountains. My first experience was with a Ford Explorer with an automatic. Pretty much stock. I liked the ability to stop and change gears or go from forward gears to reverse by just holding my foot on the brake and shifting. We now have a CJ with a T-18 . A little scary when not being able to make a tight turn and having to back up hill on a narrow trail (I'm not the best at "heel/toeing"). Engine stalling, loosing power brakes, etc. can be scary when the Jeep starts rolling in the wrong direction. However, between the two, I lean toward the manual Transmission . Better for crawling, easier to "rock" out when getting stuck. This winter we plan on putting in a hand throttle to solve the stalling problem, and this old man's feeble attempts at heel/toe driving.

 

[tarry99]

I know this may ignite a massive debate, but i wanted to get the communities opinion on why a serious off-roader, especially someone who rock climbs would ever have an automatic Transmission ?

Is it as simple as Jeep owners who drive auto, can't drive stick, or is there some other advantage off-roading with an automatic Transmission i'm not aware of.

Just to clarify, i'm not talking about daily-driving a CJ to work. Obviously Auto would be better in that situation. I'm talking about CJ owners who go out to Moab on weekends to hang off boulders.

Have had them both...........T-18 6.32 low gear , Dana 18/ 20 hybrid, They both have there positives and negatives.........

The Manual , more positive engagement , harder to drive in the since that a long trip will wear you out shifting the long throw in these Truck Transmissions........
Notwithstanding most are not sycronized in low or reverse gear meaning that you will have a tough time getting between those two gears when you need them most in tough situations........most times both the counter gear and sliding 1st and reverse gear along with the reverses idler take the beating which will chip teeth and eventually need replacing.

Macho Yes, and fun to drive for the qualified Stick Man.

The Automatics on the other hand are now not like your Fathers old Buick!
They have come along way and are pretty bullet proof if you chose the right Transmission along with the right torque converter stall speed and shifter. Large Tires are no issue but a more capable Brake system is necessary.

Breakage is fairly rare in the more modern electronic versions........but of course wires , modules and cooler lines all have to be properly maintained.
A longer Jeep near 100" in wheelbase is also needed to get most of these Auto's in behind the motor and still not have a short rear drive shaft........

Much more friendly to drive , both on and off the pavement.....and much more capable traction wise off the road while applying torque through a torque converter rather than an unforgiving clutch.

In my latest CJ6 build which will be very street able and yet very capable off road will be using a GM Auto 4L70E 4-speed with 30% OD in 4th gear.
Should be sweet to drive and wheel.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I have a huge prejudice against an automatic Transmission off road. But with all prejudices a thinking person understands that they can be unrealistic. For instance I am not a rock crawler where from what I'm understanding an automatic Transmission . can really shine. I had a Full sized Bronco with an automatic in it. We saw 192,000 miles together so I can say that there was time to fully evaluate the drive train. For me the problem with an automatic was that there was very little hold back, that is unless you dropped the Transmission down into first. If left in high with the OD engaged the thing would simply bump up through the gears and drive practically the same as it did in normal drive. I like a standard Transmission for the ability to drop it in low range, stick it in second and just creep along, no hurry, no thrashing and smashing just a consistent crawl, up hill, down hill, on the flats.

Maybe rock crawlers can answer this question for me. ..... An automatic Transmission runs through a torque converter. I understand that once there is movement in the Transmission the converter will lock in (sorta, lets be non technical here) and the vehicle will move. But what happens when the front tires are snubbed up against a rock or a curb for that matter and you can't get your vehicle to start moving. What then? How do you get things moving without burning things up?

You learn to 'burp' the throttle to torque load the tranny......
Anyone using a 'juice-box' off road needs to have some serious tranny-oil coolers plum'd in if you want it to last.
LG

 

[caveman]

But what happens when the front tires are snubbed up against a rock or a curb for that matter and you can't get your vehicle to start moving. What then? How do you get things moving without burning things up?

I don't know what auto transmissions you've driven, but their a lot better than the ones made back in the 60s. Mine came out of a 93 Grand Cherokee and all I have to do is step on the throttle a little to make it climb over whatever I'm up against. I put in low gear and it has as much hold back as any standard Transmission . Mine also has a torque converter lock up and will stall the engine if left locked up if I stop the jeep. Mine is also controlled by the shifter and switches since it was originally controlled by a computer in the GC. I loved the standard when driving on the road but was stalling it too much when offroading. I do the same kind of offroading that you've seen Wooly doing in his vidios.

 

[Hedgehog]

The newest Automatic Transmission I've used off road was in my "92 Bronco, it did all right. No fancy Transmission gadgets in my past, so I have no idea about those. Just put her in gear and GO!

 

[Woolyworm]

Caveman's rig goes great! I've never had an auto off road. The ability to have that infinitely adjustable torque sure looks to be handy on many obstacles.


Wooly

 

[Neuner]

Ugh. Thought I had put to bed my internal argument of whether or not to swap in an automatic and now you guys bring back some really good points. Thanks, now I'm back to researching how difficult it would be and whether or not I should do it.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Ugh. Thought I had put to bed my internal argument of whether or not to swap in an automatic and now you guys bring back some really good points. Thanks, now I'm back to researching how difficult it would be and whether or not I should do it.

Stay with your T177.
LG

 

[007]

Yep, this is like oil discussions...but it's been handled pretty well.

Personally, I would N E V E R have a manual Transmission in my Jeep; but I certainly understand why someone would and completely respect that.

With the driving I do, I am much better served by an automatic. I put my Jeep with 2.72's in 1st gear and tractor around all day long in the Colorado mountains with all the power and torque I need. I have a 13x9 cooler in front of my radiator to keep it cool. When I need to stop and backup, etc.; I feel much more comfortable with the auto. Bopping around town is a breeze as well. I don't crawl rocks or go mudding so I can't speak to those things.

If you have a GM Turbo 400 like I do, and miss shifting - then install a TransGo 400 kit and you can shift whenever you want.

 

[CJim7]

I like my T-18 ....but I personally don't like the feeling of stalling on a steep incline (especially with no e-brake) and only having enough feet to operate 2 of 3 pedals.

That being said, I like the feeling of having more control of your engine RPM with the manual. I know it's not going to shift on me if I decide to go nuts on the skinny pedal.

 

[Hedgehog]

But, isn't that part of the true thrill? Your life totally in your hands, life or death, gotta get 'er right in that exact moment....

 

[CJim7]

But, isn't that part of the true thrill? Your life totally in your hands, life or death, gotta get 'er right in that exact moment....

Hahaha.....maybe 20 years ago

 

[007]

But, isn't that part of the true thrill? Your life totally in your hands, life or death, gotta get 'er right in that exact moment....

I've got enough problems, I'd just as soon hit the brake and throw it in reverse.


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