13 degrees negative caster?????

13 degrees negative caster?????

1930u

Jeeper
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Location
midwest
Vehicle(s)
1975, base cj5, 232 ci, 3-speed, 3:73 differentials

Its a very rough old machine and is scary to drive but it gets better each time I work on it.
All- looking at the attached picture the front of my CJ5 is to the left. I have over the axle spring set up running on 33's. Currently I'm at 12-13 degrees negative caster. This thing drives like a wild mouse. From what I've read here on the forum 7-8 degrees positive caster is what it will take to make this thing go straight.

My question? I need to make up about 21 degrees to get it right...will a caster shim work for this? 10 degrees looks to me like about 1/4" thick shim so I would need at least a 1/2" thick shim???? Or should I just cut the spring mounts off an start over?

Thanks.
 

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could we see a few more pics. I'm thinking shims might not work on that one. Be interesting to see what your dealing with on that setup. As I recall you just recently started on this project? mike
 
yes started recently ...just trying to get it safe at this point...what a mess. stand by for pics.
 
more pics.
 

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Just a shot in the dark but it looks like the SOA spring perches could have been welded on the tubes without setting them for proper caster to begin with. Hopefully, they are welded, right?

What kind of shape are the spring packs in? If they're original, I'd imagine they're 'bout worn out. Not that new one's will affect the caster enough to fix what you got but they might make the situation in your other post look more acceptable (with the bump stop).

The shock mount looks ridiculous. If you're going to keep using the original U-bolt plates, weld some shock mounts on the rear of the plates to get your shocks more up & down like they should be.

Shims are NOT the way to go with the caster issue you have (IMO).
 
Just a shot in the dark but it looks like the SOA spring perches could have been welded on the tubes without setting them for proper caster to begin with. Hopefully, they are welded, right?

What kind of shape are the spring packs in? If they're original, I'd imagine they're 'bout worn out. Not that new one's will affect the caster enough to fix what you got but they might make the situation in your other post look more acceptable (with the bump stop).

The shock mount looks ridiculous. If you're going to keep using the original U-bolt plates, weld some shock mounts on the rear of the plates to get your shocks more up & down like they should be.

Shims are NOT the way to go with the caster issue you have (IMO).
Yes its a mess for sure...I have new springs on the way and think at this point I'm just going to cut the perches and re-weld them setting the caster properly. Thanks
 
I'd put the new springs on, cut the welds for the spring perches then bolt everything up. Set the vehicle's weight on the ground, measure the caster and adjust as necessary, THEN tack the perches in place. Break everything down and then burn the perches in place.

It'll be a lot of "do" and "re-do" but it ought to get the caster right and give you some peace of mind (as far as getting it safer to drive is concerned).
 
I have been checking out the pictures(thanks) and what I think they did was try to point the pinion up toward the Transfer Case to reduce the angle on u-joints.That would be OK but would require reclocking the C-yokes on the axle tubes. Some hard choices for sure.You have probably figured out what needs to be done. mike
 
Unless your old spring pad is exactly 90 degrees from your ball joints, And i don't think it is, You've measured it wrong. You have to figure out how many degrees it is off. I think you're going to have to take the new spring pads off and do it right.
 
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Yep, I'd agree with these guys. When the PO did a spring over he welded the new perches on wrong for whatever reason. Cut them off, align correctly and re-weld. By doing the spring over he probably discovered driveshaft interference with maybe the skid plate, so then angled the yoke to compensate. You may have to address that problem once aligned right. Is it even the correct axle for the year Jeep? Maybe it was modded to begin with and the "C"s are located wrong in reference to the diff. yoke.
You don't say what year but the newer Jeeps (80's) caster is 5-7 degrees pos.
 
I don't have access to a 75 tsm but in the 76 tsm is says for a CJ5 the caster should be 3 degrees + 1 degree. Now I assume that means 3 deg. plus or minus 1 degree.
Jeep® 1976 TSM online
It didn't load correctly for me so I had to open it in Adobe, but it gave me the choice to open it in another program.
 
from looking at the pic's who ever did that had no clue.
You really need to start all over again. There's a ton of info on the web of how to do it right.
 
from looking at the pic's who ever did that had no clue.
You really need to start all over again. There's a ton of info on the web of how to do it right.

I agree!! there is a u-tube video on clocking the c-yokes that is very well done.I probably would not have considered doing a job like that until I watched the video. Lots of grunt work and a little welding. mike
 
I don't have access to a 75 tsm but in the 76 tsm is says for a CJ5 the caster should be 3 degrees + 1 degree. Now I assume that means 3 deg. plus or minus 1 degree.
Jeep® 1976 TSM online
It didn't load correctly for me so I had to open it in Adobe, but it gave me the choice to open it in another program.

Looks like it's the same:

75-Jeep-Caster.JPG

Source: Online Jeep Service, Repair and Maintenance Manuals

Page 53 of http://www.toeksplace.com/jeep/amc/11_Steering.pdf

-Jon
 
Yep, I'd agree with these guys. When the PO did a spring over he welded the new perches on wrong for whatever reason. Cut them off, align correctly and re-weld. By doing the spring over he probably discovered driveshaft interference with maybe the skid plate, so then angled the yoke to compensate. You may have to address that problem once aligned right. Is it even the correct axle for the year Jeep? Maybe it was modded to begin with and the "C"s are located wrong in reference to the diff. yoke.
You don't say what year but the newer Jeeps (80's) caster is 5-7 degrees pos.
my extra disk brake axle is from a 1977 and the one I have now is the original that the PO did the spring over job on.
 
Just tracked my new springs and they will arrive tomorrow. I want to thank you all for the info.! I'm definitely going to cut the perches off and start over.

In time I will redo most of this thing. For now I'm just trying to get it safe so I can run it down the road. I need to get back to work on the Hot Rod. lol The funny part about this thing is the ride. It floats on the road unlike any other jeep I've ever had but it will change lanes on you in a heart beat. A white knuckle ride for sure.

Thanks folks will keep you posted
 
The PO just pointed the pinion up and forgot the caster goes negative real fast.

Figure out your driveshaft angle, weld your perches on then rotate the knuckles to 3 deg positive

It's not as hard as you might think to grind the knuckle welds and rotate them. Since I call the knuckle weld a critical weld I had the local weld shop do it right

That's one of many problems with a SOA on a CJ. It appears a cheap lift but to do it right is much harder and spendy. :)
 
SOA done right should look like this
 

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The PO just pointed the pinion up and forgot the caster goes negative real fast.

Figure out your driveshaft angle, weld your perches on then rotate the knuckles to 3 deg positive

It's not as hard as you might think to grind the knuckle welds and rotate them. Since I call the knuckle weld a critical weld I had the local weld shop do it right

That's one of many problems with a SOA on a CJ. It appears a cheap lift but to do it right is much harder and spendy. :)
You think 3 degrees will do it? And when I grind the knuckle welds off will I loose the chamber setting? Thanks.
 

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