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Funny thing is that I was reading your build last night. If I remember correctly it was a lengthy one. I recognized the pictures. Seems like the motor didn't have to be completely rebuilt- right?
I should just give mine a try- the guy I got it from said it ran fine but could maybe use a light rebuild. I figure if I am going to do a light rebuild and am going to have the $$ into a gasket kit, I might as well do it all.
I took some more pictures of the old frame to show how bad it had gotten. There is only one Jeep I've seen in person with that much rot that far up the back end. Hopefully no one is on the road with a frame worse off than this. I am thankful that I was able to afford the solid frame that I picked up.
I finally got a little time on Monday while the weather was nice to transfer the Jeep into the insulated garage for the winter. I've been storing/working on it all along in my 24x32 pole barn, but it is not insulated so for the MI winter I plan to swap parking spots with my daily driver. I will just pull my daily driver into the barn at night so that I can keep the Jeep in the garage and heat the garage when I have time to get out there and make some progress. I posted a pic of my vintage kerosene heater. It will heat for about 18hrs on a gallon of fuel (tested it out yesterday) but leaves a nice stench that would keep me from ever using it indoors.
Besides getting the Jeep in the garage for the winter, I wire wheeled the AMC20 so that I could prime and paint it before bolting it up.
I wanted to remove the drums and work on the brakes while I had them easily accessable (so I thought). I couldn't get the drums off for the life of me.
I used my impact screwdriver to get the screws out, backed out the tensioner to make sure the shoes were plenty lose and wacked them with a hammer multiple times to break lose what ever they are stuck on. Any ideas? My shop manual merely said to remove the drums to access the shoes.
I didn't think the two were related, but I took off the large nut and washer (which freed absolutely nothing).
I need to look around on this site and see if this has been covered somewhere. In the meantime I finished wire wheeling everything, wiped it down and primed/painted inside the garage where I could keep it warm enough for the paint to dry. Now the garage (and some of the house) smells like kerosene and paint fumes. My wife loves that smell
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I picked up a locker for the AMC20 on craigslist last year some time. I was told it was a lockright- the pictures look exactly the same. I think I read somewhere that the one I picked up can't be used in the AMC20 's that have had the 1 piece axle upgrade. (mine aren't 1 piece yet- so no biggie for now). Still, the installation instructions made it sound like guys with 1 piece axles just had to take a different step when installing.
To be honest, I spent more than an hour trying to make sense of the directions. It shouldn't be that difficult, but this is my first experience with working on a differential- it is tough to follow the directions when you don't know what parts they are making mention of.
This is how I learn best. Dig in and ask questions as I go. I never did pick up anything watching my dad work on cars.
I cleaned up the seat where the gasket sits and spent some more time looking at the gears as I read the directions over and over. I need to keep reading so that I know what questions to ask and at least be able to call the parts by their proper names. I will save the installation for another day and at least let the paint dry.
Am I on the right track if I knock the big pin out and see if the whatchamacallit (spider gears?) will clear the big gear (ring gear?) on the way out. The directions said something about pulling the axles back a touch, but even with the large nuts removed on the ends, they aren't moving at all. I wonder if I need to get those pesky drums off first?
Y'all that can do this with your eyes closed bear with me. I know there are some very detailed write ups out there that will help me out. I just need to find the ones that speak in layman's terms. I'll do my homework and come back later.
While paint was drying on the AMC20 I worked on replacing some of the frame bolts with grade 8 zinc coated bolts. I have to go back and replace some of the bolts that I already put on as well as use the grade 8 as I bolt up stuff from now on. I just bought a bunch of every size so that I didn't have to make a bunch of trips.
For some reason, the local Tractor Supply skips a size on the grade 8 bolts they sell in bulk (wouldn't you know, they don't carry the bolt size I needed for the spring hangers). I bought new spring hangers for the rear from Quadratec for $16 a piece - saving me the time and money that would have gone into sandblasting & powder coat.
I went back and looked through old pictures because it didn't make sense the way the hangers were bolted up. They seemed backwards- like the loop should have been in the rear, not toward the front. The front hangers make sense but not the rear.
One of the next steps is to replace the fuel sending unit and bolt up the gas tank and skid plate. My Jeep came with a new gas tank, but was held up by a yellow ratchet strap (not sure what ever happened to the skid plate/pan that holds the gas tank up).
I never realized that there was a skid plate- until I was checking out someone else's build and saw the straps on the top and the skid pan on the bottom. We just thought that the new gas tank straps that they bought with the new tank were the wrong ones.
Quadratec sells the skid plate for $60 so one of those is on its way. I want to have the tank and sending unit bolted up so that I know exactly where to rout the new fuel lines.
I took the lines off the old frame (brake and fuel) and took them in to Advance Auto to get the size lines, hoses etc. I looked up the pre-bent stainless lines but didn't want to pay the money for one and there was something about bending up my own that was desirable.
I am wondering what the canister? is that the third gas line goes to and if I can eliminate it. It was bolted up in back by the tail light. It is obviously worthless in this condition- not sure what it is and what its purpose is.
I understand that one line is the fuel supply, one is the return and the third one went to whatever this fuel filter looking thing is that wasn't doing its job (yet the Jeep still ran fine). I can't remember which end goes with the little fuel filter looking canister.
I wanted to remove the drums and work on the brakes while I had them easily accessable (so I thought). I couldn't get the drums off for the life of me.
I used my impact screwdriver to get the screws out, backed out the tensioner to make sure the shoes were plenty lose and wacked them with a hammer multiple times to break lose what ever they are stuck on. Any ideas? My shop manual merely said to remove the drums to access the shoes.
I found this post on the thread named "Brade Drum Removal." IOPort51 was giving advice to someone with the same problem. It was posted about a year ago. Here's what he wrote...
"If it was an AMC 20 I would tell you to take the screws out but I don't think this is an option with the 44. I have seen drums get rusted to the axle hub and be a major pain to get off, I have used the dead blow method and the heat the drum with a torch method and the 50% acetone 50% ATF soak for a couple of hours method. It has always boiled down to brute force in the end. I would try the penetrating oil in conjunction with the hammer. Save the heat for last.
I am going to give it another try when I get back into town. I think they must be rusted to the axle hub by the looks of it. I have them painted up nice now, but once they are removed I will see if they need turned or replaced anyway.
After spraying rust buster on a few occasions and beating on the old drums some more, I decided to get the torch out. In the end I think that is what made the difference.
After heating the drums up, a few small taps popped them off, so I was relieved.
It has been a while since I worked on drum brakes. I took pictures as I removed the shoes and hardware, but left the other side on as a reference. I picked up new wheel cylinders, drums, shoes and hardware.
I thought when I started that I wouldn't even need new drums or shoes since the rear doesn't do much of the stopping. I was dead wrong. The only thing left in the shoes was two large groves, which were inversely worn into the drums... the worse I had seen before.
Part way into the brake job I realized that I didn't buy the adjuster screws and also needed the cable- one was busted and the other probably on its way, so I picked up a kit at the local Advance Auto for each side which included everything else I needed.
It took me quite a while to get everything for the drum brakes in the right spot. I was glad I didn't disconnect the other side, because I made multiple trips to see which spring went where. Needless to say the other side went faster, but I still have no idea what the actual order of operations is supposed to be.
When I finished the brakes, I drained the oil out of the AMC20 and figured I would mess with the locker after it was back on the frame. I don't want it to slow the rest of my progress since I don't know how to get it done at this point.
I moved the AMC20 over the leaf springs and set it on them for tomorrow (hopefully) when I plan to put the U bolts, shocks and wheels back on.
I want to have all of that in place so that I can rout the brake and fuel lines over the next couple of weeks when I get a free minute.
Tomorrow I have to go back to work. I am a PE teacher in the elementary schools near-by. I love my job...and the vacation time allows me to spend with my family and with my Jeep, but I didn't get as much done over break as I had hoped.
As I think I mentioned earlier, my buddy (who had the Jeep in his possession for about a year) bought a new gas tank for it, but didn't change out the sending unit. As I went to put a new fuel sending unit ($26.08) in the tank, I realized that I needed the strainer tube for the end so I ordered one also from Quadratec and am waiting for that to arrive. (Advance Auto said they didn't show it takes one). ($10.98 w/shipping)
The skid plate came in from Quadratec, so I bolted that up with new grade 8 bolts. That was probably the easiest thing I've done yet. I just bought it and bolted it up so I can't be too proud of that- It looks nice though.
Speaking of looking nice, a couple months back I was showing a fellow Jeep owner what I was working on and pulled out of my pocket an old clip off my frame. We were talking about where do you stop once you get started replacing stuff. A week later he brought me a dozen stainless clips that he made from scrap at his shop where he works. He is a good guy but has one of those Jeeps with the square headlights.
Today an old college friend of mine saw a few pictures of my project on Facebook and mentioned that with all the money and time I would have in the Jeep I could have bought a new one. My response should have been the same as those stickers I have seen around that say "Built Not Bought." I have learned a lot already and enjoy the time that has gone into this build so far. Trouble is knowing where to stop. Luckily I have spread the parts purchases out over a few years now and my Limited budget keeps me from just buying everything I have my eye on.
Buying more parts seemed necessary again even knowing that my side money is about dried up for now. As I cleaned up the AMC20 , it was evident that the medal left in the leaf spring perches was very weak.
I didn't necessarily want to have to grind these off and weld new ones on, but it would be a shame if I went through all the trouble with everything else and then left these in this state.
I am thinking that the AMC20 could rotate if both perches were weak enough, even with the U bolts tight. ?
I ordered a pair of 2 1/2" wide perches for a 3" tube (I hope the tube size was correct). All together over the past couple of months (for the rear) I bought new perches ($33), spring plates ($66), and spring hangers ($28). I didn't get anything that was better than stock, just new, minus the rust and warping, w/a fresh powder coat.
I have a wire welder and some experience welding up trailers and such, and have read that I should only tack small sections and let it cool for a long time in-between welds.
I also realized that the gas tank can't be dropped in from the top with the skid plate bolted on so I had to unbolt what I had just bolted to get the gas tank in. I had some help holding both up from my jack so it only took about 10 minutes. I guess the proper order of operations is sometimes necessary.
Anyone know how many straps are standard over the top of the tank?
The 5th picture is how it sits today. I imagine progress will be slow for a while here until the gas and brake lines are bent up and fastened on, the gas tank strapped in with a new sending unit and the rear axle bolted up with new perches welded on.
Re: 82CJ7 frame swap & lift build- new leaf spring perches
I am a teacher in MI and we had a snow day today due to 6" of snow overnight combined with ice. I received my leaf spring perches a couple of days ago, so I figured it would be a good day for progress.
This is the most faith I have put into my skills so far during this build, because if the perches are welded in the wrong spot, I could have a lot of problems. The perches may not line up w/the leaf springs or my pumpkin (as I have heard it called here) won't be tilting the proper way.
I cut off the old perches that were so badly rusted that they were practically paper thin in spots. I marked the center hole along the axle tube and the distance from the drums before hand.
I tacked the first perch on and set a book under the pumpkin so that by setting a level on the perch the bubble on the level was just touching the line. I then measured and set the other side making sure the level showed the same as the first side. (I came up with this on my own and am hoping it is enough to ensure they are both on exactly the same).
I spent about 2 hours total on this because I only tacked a couple of spots at a time on each perch and waited till they were cool to the touch each time. I was working on getting the pin & shaft out of my differential (installing a lunchbox locker) while I waited for the welds to cool. I am not sure how necessary it was to wait that long in between welds, but read somewhere that is a good idea when welding to the axle tubes.
My wire welder uses the flux core wire, so it is messy until you wire wheel it off. I used to be spoiled with the argon gas set-up, but had to get that back to my dad who I was borrowing it from. It lays a nice weld though- in my opinion.
The real test will be when I mount the axle and see how it lines up with the leaf springs tomorrow... then see how the alignment is with the drive-shaft which may be months? down the road. I am confident at this point that they are right where they are supposed to be.
I picked up a locker for the AMC20 on craigslist last year some time. This is my first experience working on a differential- it is tough to follow the directions when you don't know what parts they are making mention of.
Am I on the right track if I knock the big pin out and see if the whatchamacallit (spider gears?) will clear the big gear (ring gear?) on the way out. The directions said something about pulling the axles back a touch...I'll do my homework and come back later.
The above post was a little over 2 weeks ago. I had to take the AMC off the frame again because I decided to weld on the new leaf spring perches, so I posted a question a day or so ago about getting the small pin out in order to remove the shaft that is holding the spider gears in. I figured I would take another shot at it while it was easily accessible. CJim7's screw trick worked out for me nicely.
I screwed into the small pin (A), locked on to it with vicegrips and pried it out. It didn't take much to get the shaft out and from there, then with a little roll forward & backward, two of the spider gears dropped out.
I think I need to borrow a puller to get the axles back a touch. I already have the drums and axle nuts off at the ends, but read in the shop manual that I need to get a puller to get the axles back.
Any advice otherwise, or is a puller the rout I need to go in order to get the axles back just enough to get the spacer and other gears out?
One of the posts I came across while doing my "research" was a thread about axle seal replacement. It sounded like either way I was going to have to get the axles back a touch (like CJ007 said) and I needed to know how to do that.
CJ posted this in 2009.
"You don't have to pull the hub to remove the complete axle assembly. I have pulled the assembly off of a 20 with out pulling the hub.
unbolt the 4 backing plate bolts. Take a brake drum and slid it over the hub so the drum is on BACKWARDS. You want the opening facing away from the brakes... Put on three lug nuts, but only screw them on a few threads... Now you have an instant slide hammer, just push the drum against the axle and yank it to the outside. The force of a few blows should be enough to break loose the bearing pack and pull the axle."
CJ- The trick with the drum being the slide hammer was brilliant!
All the work was in getting the axles back. It wasn't hard work necessarily, but time consuming removing the nuts and bolts with the brake shoes & hardware all there. Sad thing is that 1 week ago I had the brakes completely stripped.
Once the axles were pulled back, I didn't bother taking the carrier out. It worked for me to put the locker in with the carrier still in.
I realized part way through that the locker has two flat spots for a reason. For a bit I was thinking that it was just a little too big till I realized I needed to orient it differently.
I actually had to take the locker back out after I thought I was completely finished. I was looking at the diagram on the instructions and realizing that I didn't put the doughnut looking spacer back in the center.
My ring gear was close to the same size as the opening, it actually helped me keep the springs in the locker compressed so that I could slide it in.
There was a label of 154 on it. I have read in other forums that this somehow tells me what my Jeep is geared. I'll have to read again.
Turning it by hand while the axle is on jackstands, they are staying locked together. I imagine it takes a little bit of force to get the springs to compress and click to let the wheels turn at different speed. At least I am hoping that is the case and not something I jicked up.
I started heating the garage as I headed off to church this morning. I wanted to get some paint on the drums, perches and diff cover so I needed the room and the parts warm enough. By 1:00, my little kerosene heater had it up to what felt like 60 so I figured I was good to go.
Before getting things ready for primer & paint, I inspected the locker again to make sure I didn't forget to put the thrust washers in- I keep worrying that I didn't do something right. That is sometimes how it is when it is your first time doing something. I haven't seen it in action yet and when I turn either of the drums it stays locked...
With everything new in the rear (leaf perches, leaf spring plates, leaf springs, U bolts and shocks) I am excited to get it all bolted up- just waiting for the paint to dry and thinking about getting the neighbor to help me carry the AMC20 over to where it goes. I am worrying I am going to blow out my back dead lifting it again.
I realize this is a Jeep and it will get scratched, dirty and beat up, but I still like going through the trouble of getting paint on everything and although I am not doing anything fancy or elaborate (sticking with black and gray for the most part) I decided to paint the drums and diff cover something other than black.
I am replacing many of the bolts with grade 8 as I go, but in this case didn't have any short enough so I just stuck them in an empty 9mm case so I could paint the heads without getting paint on the threads.
The diff cover was so shiny in the end I could see my reflection when I was finished.
As I mentioned earlier, there was a stamp on my ring gear of 154. That didn't tell me anything so I counted the teeth on the ring gear and the pinion.
Pinion=15, Ring gear=41. 41/15=2.73 (now I see 154 meant something, but why not stamp 1541?)
I read an Aug2011 post from CJ that explained a number of ways to determine what gears you have and the equation to find out the ratio.
"2) Look at the ring gear for a four number stamp such as '4111'. This tells us that we have a 41 tooth ring gear and an 11 tooth pinion gear. By dividing 41 by 11 (41/11) we come up with a ratio of 3.73 to 1. The advantage to pulling the cover is that you can inspect the diff and check what carrier type you have.
3) If there is no stamp on the ring gear you can also count the teeth on both. Follow the math example in item #2 for the ratio calculation."
So my gear ratio is 2.73. Who cares? After "researching" a little further I learned that this means my driveshaft will turn 2.73 times for every one revolution of the axle/wheels. Ok, so what does that really tell me?
Lower gears are numerically higher (i.e. 4.10) & will cause higher RPM's at a given speed. Higher gears are numerically lower (i.e. 2.73) & will turn lower RPM's at a given speed. Add to the fact that I am increasing the stock tire size to 33's and my "effective" gearing gets numerically lower...
From what I have read, lower gears (4.10) will get you off the line faster, but wind the engine really high on the highway. (I had a 79F250 factory plow truck with 4.10 gears & a 400 (motor)- great for pushing snow and 4wheeling (dana 60's)...I loved that truck!).
What am I in for with 2.73 gears w33's & a stock 4.2I6? Is this going to be a turtle of a 4x4 or will I just have to be in 4low all day long? Anyone else in this boat getting along just fine? I started building this Jeep without really driving it more than a mile down the road and in the yard.
73 CJ5 4.0 head on a 258, HEI, Holley Projection w/ 4.56, Detroit lockers Narrowed D44 front and full float D44 rear T14 w/ D20 4 wheel discs, 38.5 Boggers
Lower gears are numerically higher (i.e. 4.10) & will cause higher RPM's at a given speed. Higher gears are numerically lower (i.e. 2.73) & will turn lower RPM's at a given speed. Add to the fact that I am increasing the stock tire size to 33's and my "effective" gearing gets numerically lower...
What am I in for with 2.73 gears w33's & a stock 4.2I6? Is this going to be a turtle of a 4x4
1) 154 is not the ratio. It will be stamped 41-15 or vise versa. I suspect a date code or heat code of manufacture. (I used to make OEM Dana axle parts)
2)A turtle that will be hard on clutches. The I6 doesn't have the power to really pull it well. 4LO is not an option on pavement. There is not viscous coupler like on today's full-time all-wheel drives between the front and rear axles.
Well I have been a bit down after finding out that this Jeep has 2.73 gears. All that really means is that I will have to spend the money (someday) for 4.10 gears or something. I will have to ask around for what is most desirable for the set-up and type of wheeling that I plan to do. My buddies and I frequent Silver Lake in MI the most, but I hope to get in a 4x4 club that wheels in town as well.
I heard a clicking noise (which was a good sound to me) as I was putting the second wheel/tire on after getting the AMC20 bolted up. I have been worried since I put the locker in if it was installed properly or not. Without the tires on, when I would turn one side it stayed locked. Once I put the tires on, w/one side still up in the air, the locker allowed the one tire to spin like it is supposed to.
Besides getting the rear bolted up, I have begun working on e-brakes (simple & quick) and taking apart the motor mounts in case I get a chance to sandblast them tomorrow after work.
Wow, what an interesting build, especially to me. I started doing my rebuild in October of an 82 CJ7Renegade I6. The similarities are very interesting but I guess they should be. I just registered on this site yesterday and started looking through the builds today.
I believe you and I could talk for hours. I've had my Jeep for 30 years come March. Got it when it had 4/10ths of a mile on it. You had said earlier about never having seen a frame as bad as yours... well maybe it was a bad batch of 1982 frames but I had patched mine on the driv. side rear horn and the front of the rear pass. side at the spring mount, about 10 years ago. Now the other rear horn has terminal cancer, so that was the deciding factor in my choice to get a new frame. I went the TDK frame direction though and then POR'd it outside and used Eastwood's Internal Frame Paint for the inside.
I also found the same issue with Tractor Supply and their grade 8 bolts. Was it the 7/16" ones missing? I believe I found some at a TrueValue hardware store.
I also had put one of those LockRights in my AMC20 back in the 90's. The constant clicking from it locking and unlocking on slow turn drove me nuts, so I swapped it to a TracLok when I changed gears. I don't remember my 1 pc axles being an issue with the LockRight though, but it's been a while.
I highly recommend you plan on getting some 1 pc. axles soon. Not just because it's the weak point of a 20, but because of you running 33" tires with 2.73 gears. It'll be just a matter of time.
I had factory 2.73's and wheeled a good bit with 11x15 TruTracs (32") on. It held for years (and it was a dog on paved hills) until one day coming home from college on a paved road going over a ridge the hub started to spin. Luckily I was able to crest the hill but that was the first of 2 axles, actually 3 because we pinned and welded the original one which didn't last long, that I replaced before getting a set of Moser Engineering axles which are still in to this day. A year or two later I switched to 3.73 gears.
And that brings up something else I wanted to tell you for future reference. The carrier for the AMC20 that you have will only fit 2.73 gears. Any other ratio will necessitate buying a new carrier also. They also appear to be getting harder to find from what I've read. Your front Dana 30 will be find until you go lower (numerically higher) than a 3.54 ratio. Just thought I let you know so you can plan ahead.
But anyways, you can read some more of my Jeeps history at the start of my build. I hope it's not taboo to link to another forum. Let me know if it is CJ and I'll remove it. I don't really want to keep a build going in 2 different places. 30th Aniversary build- 82 CJ-7 Renegade frame off - JeepForum.com
Just a quick overview of my plans: a new frame, whole body tub repair, Daystar 1" poly mounts, Old Man Emu 2 1/2" rear YJ springs all around with greaseable bolts, 1 1/2" WP shackles, spring plate skids, rear axle truss, front TruTrac ls. locker, new ss brake and gas lines, and the original Renegade decals put back on. And your right, a ton of little parts and pieces here and there because as you go, that saying is always present.... "since its apart I might as well replace it now"!!!
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Just sayin'...
There is only one Jeep I've seen in person with that much rot that far up the back end. Hopefully no one is on the road with a frame worse off than this. I am thankful that I was able to afford the solid frame that I picked up. 
I will save the installation for another day and at least let the paint dry.
