Clutch Advice on clutch/transmission issue

[BMK84CJ572]

Hi y'all! I recently purchase my first CJ and I love it! But I'm having an issue I would appreciate some help with. The Jeep is a '72 CJ5 with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , I believe a T-15 Transmission , and Dana 20 Transfer Case . I've been doing some research and reading the forums, but I'm still not sure where to start... The issue I'm having is shifting into gear, and a noise I've noticed in 1st and 2nd gear which goes away in 3rd. I wouldn't describe the noise as grinding, but more of a constant rough rubbing.

Prior to this weekend I wasn't having any issues shifting, but the rubbing noise has been there since I bought the Jeep. I was driving around this weekend and all of a sudden it got very hard to shift out of any gear. I got under the Jeep and adjusted the slave cylinder (previous owner converted to hydraulic system) since I was suspecting that maybe it was out of adjustment and wasn't fully disengaging the clutch. That fixed my problem temporarily, but now it's even worse. I have to shut the engine off to shift out of gear. Also, now if I take my foot off the brake and have the clutch pedal to the floor the Jeep will still move!

Where should I start in trying to diagnose this problem? Advice I've seen on other threads is to start with clutch linkage and basically work my way down towards the Transmission until I find the culprit. It seems like it's surely a clutch issue to me, but I'm no expert and would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Sounds like the clutch is shot and in need of replacement. I've had good luck with luk brand clutches in multiple different Jeeps

Id recommend replacing the flywheel and throw out bearing as well.

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[CJ]

Agree, sounds like typical worn out clutch. I bet there are some hot spots on the flywheel as well.
As for clutch brands, I prefer Centerforce.

 

[BMK84CJ572]

Got it. Thanks y’all. Looks like I get to learn how to rebuild a clutch. Time to start watching some videos!

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Agree, sounds like typical worn out clutch. I bet there are some hot spots on the flywheel as well.
As for clutch brands, I prefer Centerforce.

I like them as well when budget allows.

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[CJ]

Got it. Thanks y’all. Looks like I get to learn how to rebuild a clutch. Time to start watching some videos!

Don't really rebuild them. Replace and resurface.

1 - The disc, pressure plate, pilot bearing, throw out bearing and flywheel / pressure plate bolts are replaced.
2 - You take the flywheel off and take it to a machine shop to be resurfaced (the contact surface is milled). Or replace.
3 - While the flywheel is off, change the pilot bearing (bronze) There is a trick for this concerning a dowl and grease (think hydraulics).
4 -Put on the flywheel, then using the alignment tool (supplied in the kit) put on the disc and pressure plate. Be sure you use the new bolts and blue loctite and torque to spec in a cross pattern.
5 - Put back on Transmission and adjust the gap between the T/O bearing and pressure plate.

Don't forget to follow the break in instructions.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Fly Wheels are cheap enough just replace it. It's faster than waiting for it to be machined and about the same cost

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[CJ]

Fly Wheels are cheap enough just replace it. It's faster than waiting for it to be machined and about the same cost

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I agree, 304s can be a pain because of the balance. There are internal and external versions.

EDIT: Just noticed it is a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . Nevermind...

 

[jeepsid]

sounds to me like slave cylinder on clutch is not holding pressure. as you stated you have to kill the engine to get it out of gear tells me the clutch is fine and not slipping. so that leans to the hydraulic clutch not holding pressure ...
you didnt say anything about a clutch slipping . if its slipping then you should be able to hold brake while its moving and if it stalls the engine then clutch is fine .....

 

[BMK84CJ572]

sounds to me like slave cylinder on clutch is not holding pressure. as you stated you have to kill the engine to get it out of gear tells me the clutch is fine and not slipping. so that leans to the hydraulic clutch not holding pressure ...
you didnt say anything about a clutch slipping . if its slipping then you should be able to hold brake while its moving and if it stalls the engine then clutch is fine .....

I’ll test that out first. It would be great if that’s all it is. A lot less work to fix. I’m still wondering about the rubbing noise in first and second gear. It’s a constant sound. Not gears grinding, but more like two smooth surfaces rubbing together. I just don’t know if the issue is in the Transmission or somewhere else. It sounds like it’s coming from the bell housing to me though. Maybe I need to record it and post a video.

 

[CJ]

sounds to me like slave cylinder on clutch is not holding pressure. as you stated you have to kill the engine to get it out of gear tells me the clutch is fine and not slipping. so that leans to the hydraulic clutch not holding pressure ...
you didnt say anything about a clutch slipping . if its slipping then you should be able to hold brake while its moving and if it stalls the engine then clutch is fine .....

That's a good theory. To test this it will take two people.
Remove the bell housing acces plate and while someone holds the clutch pedal all the way down insert some feeler gauges between the disc and the flywheel. Use the thickness that just slips. After a while you should be still be able to slide the same thickness in without binding.

 

[BMK84CJ572]

Well I went a different route, but it was productive. I threaded the slave cylinder end all the way in so it wasn't engaging the clutch fork and removed the spring. Then I pulled the boot that goes around the fork on the bellhousing to see what I could see. First thing I saw was what I believe used to be a mouse nest. The next thing I noticed is that the fork wasn't attached to anything! I'm still learning, but from what I've seen the fork should be securely attached to the throw-out bearing. I don't believe I managed to pull it off or anything when I was getting the boot off. I really didn't pull on the fork or anything, and I doubt it supposed to come off that easily. So, it seems to me that I do have a clutch issue and will be digging in further.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

Pull the Transmission . Clean out the nest inspect the clutch (I'd replace it since your in there) the other thing you want to do is inspect and check pivot ball and pedestal.

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[BMK84CJ572]

Pull the Transmission . Clean out the nest inspect the clutch (I'd replace it since your in there) the other thing you want to do is inspect and check pivot ball and pedestal.

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That's what I was thinking of doing. Since I've got to get in there anyway I might as well drop it all and inspect everything. I'll be sure to inspect the pivot ball and pedestal too.

 

[Manic Mechanic]

I had a broken pedestal and it acted just like your describing

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