Steering Another loose-*** steering post

[RI CJ5]

So I just bought a 1980 CJ5. 360, 4" lift, 33's. PO did a frame off resto. Beautiful work. Everything is new and tight and clean. But the thing wanders all over the road. I have been searching the web for days but outside of " That's just the way they drive" {which is true to a point, but I had an '85 with 33's and a 3" lift and it wasn't nearly as bad} and "Mine drives nice at 90mph on the highway" which sound like a dream, there is nothing I can see to do. Steering box has no play although I cant adj due to stripped allen nut. So, besides adding a steering stabilizer, which will help but not cure. I can see the springs flex side to side when I turn wheel. Whole body shifts, but don't want to crank shackles any tighter and all tie rod ends are tight. So, are there any other ideas out there?
Thanks in advance, Johnny

 

[CJ]

We have a great how to on correcting CJ steering. Have you seen this?

Troubleshooting & Correcting your Steering

When you're not satisfied with the steering in your Jeep, these are the steps you need to take to find & correct the problem(s). Step 1 - find and correct any worn or damaged parts. Begin with the rear suspension. Rear suspension issues can cause nearly as many steering problems as front...

jeep-cj.com

 

[RI CJ5]

If that's the link in every other steering post it's given me an error code before. Thank you!!

 

[CJ]

If that's the link in every other steering post it's given me an error code before. Thank you!!

I just logged in as you and that link works to our internal guide, not an old deleted or expired off-site article.
While some parts of the guide are generic many parts are CJ specific.
Hopefully we can get you traveling down the road in your CJ as many of us do at highway speeds...

 

[j6824]

So I just bought a 1980 CJ5. 360, 4" lift, 33's. PO did a frame off resto. Beautiful work. Everything is new and tight and clean. But the thing wanders all over the road. I have been searching the web for days but outside of " That's just the way they drive" {which is true to a point, but I had an '85 with 33's and a 3" lift and it wasn't nearly as bad} and "Mine drives nice at 90mph on the highway" which sound like a dream, there is nothing I can see to do. Steering box has no play although I cant adj due to stripped allen nut. So, besides adding a steering stabilizer, which will help but not cure. I can see the springs flex side to side when I turn wheel. Whole body shifts, but don't want to crank shackles any tighter and all tie rod ends are tight. So, are there any other ideas out there?
Thanks in advance, Johnny

In a nutshell, it could be anything from the steering shaft to the toe-in adjustment

Being it's had a frame-off, you'd think that all the steering components would have been replaced, but...you know what they say about assumption

The spring/tub flex doesn't sound good

Any idea what springs?

 

[RI CJ5]

Everything is new. All is tight. That's what's bothering me. It can't be all the lift and tires. I believe it's a superlift. He said 4". I measured shackles and they are 4" eye to eye so there's 1" so assuming it's a 3" spring lift.

 

[CJ]

Everything is new. All is tight. That's what's bothering me. It can't be all the lift and tires. I believe it's a superlift. He said 4". I measured shackles and they are 4" eye to eye so there's 1" so assuming it's a 3" spring lift.

What are your castor, chamber and toe settings? Wheel bearings tight? Gearbox backlash with Jeep up off of the ground. The steering shaft rag joint / coupler fit? If the lift is new how is the fit from the spring bushings to frame? The spring movement when the steering is turned is worrysome but a little is normal. Are there any hidden frame problems?
Do you have any pictures?

 

[TSB8C]

Interesting about the body and spring movement/flexing when turning the wheel. Springs worn? Shackle bushings worn? Steering box and/or mount shifting?

What about the steering shaft? There's a bearing and bushing at the lower end of the column where the shaft connects. Make sure that's tight. Many people, myself included, also replace the steering shaft to eliminate the slip joints. I have the Borgeson with the vibration dampener.

My '84 with a 4" spring lift and 35's drive straight as an arrow up to 85mph (haven't been faster than that). Obviously new drag link and tie rod ends, drop pitman arm (due to the lift) to keep the drag link as close to parallel with the tie rod to reduce any bump steer, new ball joints top and bottom, dual steering stabilizers (opposing each other), steering box brace, and proper toe-in (3/16" or so). But another major improvement is a bit harder as there's no adjustment for it with the Dana 30 front axle - and that's castor/camber. These are fixed by the ball joints mounted into the knuckles with no adjustment available. I found that mine was off more than desirable. So when I replaced the ball joints, I also purchased and installed some offset bushings to replace the stock ones that go into the upper part of the knuckles where the ball joint shaft goes through. These bushings have the hole in the center (where the upper ball joint shaft goes through) drilled offset or at an angle and can be rotated to compensate for variances in the castor and camber by slightly altering the angle of the ball joint. It's a pain to get the adjustments right, but made a lot of difference for my setup.

These come in various angles (amount of degrees they adjust for), so you need to find out where you are currently and then get the right ones for your situation. After installing and adjusting these, my alignment has all the measurements in the proper or normal range and I can drive 70mph with one finger - rock solid. Faster than that I do grab the wheel a bit tighter, but still no issues.

 

[Patrick]

Sway bar missing?

 

[CJ]

Interesting about the body and spring movement/flexing when turning the wheel. Springs worn? Shackle bushings worn? Steering box and/or mount shifting?

What about the steering shaft? There's a bearing and bushing at the lower end of the column where the shaft connects. Make sure that's tight. Many people, myself included, also replace the steering shaft to eliminate the slip joints. I have the Borgeson with the vibration dampener.

My '84 with a 4" spring lift and 35's drive straight as an arrow up to 85mph (haven't been faster than that). Obviously new drag link and tie rod ends, drop pitman arm (due to the lift) to keep the drag link as close to parallel with the tie rod to reduce any bump steer, new ball joints top and bottom, dual steering stabilizers (opposing each other), steering box brace, and proper toe-in (3/16" or so). But another major improvement is a bit harder as there's no adjustment for it with the Dana 30 front axle - and that's castor/camber. These are fixed by the ball joints mounted into the knuckles with no adjustment available. I found that mine was off more than desirable. So when I replaced the ball joints, I also purchased and installed some offset bushings to replace the stock ones that go into the upper part of the knuckles where the ball joint shaft goes through. These bushings have the hole in the center (where the upper ball joint shaft goes through) drilled offset or at an angle and can be rotated to compensate for variances in the castor and camber by slightly altering the angle of the ball joint. It's a pain to get the adjustments right, but made a lot of difference for my setup.

These come in various angles (amount of degrees they adjust for), so you need to find out where you are currently and then get the right ones for your situation. After installing and adjusting these, my alignment has all the measurements in the proper or normal range and I can drive 70mph with one finger - rock solid. Faster than that I do grab the wheel a bit tighter, but still no issues.

View attachment 86806 View attachment 86807

To add to what @TSB8C said, do you have any degree shims between the spring and axle pad (not usually used on the front because the affect your alignment.) Those will change your castor causing wander and issues with the return to center of your steering.
They do make camber angle only alignment shims that go between the knuckle and the spindle.
Your fix really depends on what your current alignment numbers look like. Can you post the alignment print out?

This is what a camber only shim looks like.

 

[RI CJ5]

So, I know I need pics but, everything is new. Steering shaft, greasable shackles, poly bushings, new tie rod ends, new wheel bearings, Steering box brace, 6* shims up front, 4* in back iirc. I did check toe-in today and it was off bt about 3/4". I adjusted it to about 1/8 toe in. Fixed a lot. Still a bit of wander and feels a bit catchy or sticky if that describes it? Still have flex of frame side to dive when turning wheel standing still. Feel better about driving to shop for real alignment. Thought he said he'd done one but obviously.......

I'll add a stabilizer once I get everything else as good as possible
Also thought about sway bar but not sure how much that will help.

 

[CJ]

Six degree spring pad angle shims? That either removes all castor or doubles it. Castor is the number one cause of high speed wander. Think about the crazy front wheel shake on broken shopping carts...
What are your current alignment readings from the alignment shop?
Does your steering return to center?

 

[RI CJ5]

I thought 4* was the desired but that's what he has. I haven't been to alignment shop. Not registered yet. Riding dirty with VT plate.....

 

[CJ]

I thought 4* was the desired but that's what he has. I haven't been to alignment shop. Not registered yet. Riding dirty with VT plate.....

I was approximating on the remove / double comment. 4 degrees is built into the factory weld of the spring perch to the axle tube. By putting the spring shims on you either have 10 deg. or -2 deg. of castor.
Is the thick part of the shim twords the front or rear? If it's to the rear the shim has removed the factory positive castor and transformed it to 2 deg. negative.

 

[Belizean]

So did the PO mention why his beautifully built Jeep wonders all over the road ? I’ve replaced steering shaft and bearings, installed HD tie rod and drag link and TR ends all around and other parts plus a lift. Still drives straight. In 40 years it has never been aligned. I do plan one of these days to take it to an alignment shop just as a reference of what it is. With all that work being done, something is out of wack. That’s not how a typical Jeep drives.

 

[RI CJ5]

I agree. It was his first jeep. He's a hotrod guy. He did do a nice job but claimed that it was due to lift and tires. I know I'm missing something. I'm thinking caster and maybe dial in alignment better.

 

[CJ]

I agree. It was his first jeep. He's a hotrod guy. He did do a nice job but claimed that it was due to lift and tires. I know I'm missing something. I'm thinking caster and maybe dial in alignment better.

This is a great thread (below linked) on just your problem... It all comes down to castor. IMO the shims are for rear pinion angle only. They only belong on the front if your factory castor angle is off. To adjust pinion angle on the front you should drop the transfer case if needed.

caster angle

84 CJ7, 360 auto. Installed Rough Country 4" Suspension lift with a 1" lift shackle. After the install I took it for a ride and noticed that the steering was very light and wandering a little on the highway. I took it for an alignment and the mechanic said that my caster angle should be 8...

jeep-cj.com

 

[CJ]

Forgot, is the thick side of the shim to the rear?
I would take the hour and pull them...

 

[RI CJ5]

Thick side fwd

 

[CJ]

Thick side fwd

That is weird, moves castor more positive and decreases the pinion angle but increases the driveshaft angle. I would spend a few minutes and remove them.