BDS YJ Conversion is on

[PaRenegade]

I don't have much faith in Rocky Road, I've read a lot of negative things concerning them, ie: parts backordered, poor customer service, parts missing, etc. But neither here nor there, the fact is you should always check your caster after altering the suspension geometry. Not all springs are created equal, some provide more of a flat area in the center and some are a continuous arch. And if you add longer shackles, which they do and is why they can claim 3-3 1/2" of lift using 2 1/2" lift springs, it almost ALWAYS will change your caster. Maybe not to the point that your steering sucks, but it does change.
I put on (4)OME heavy rear springs with 1" lift shackles and it needed shimmed. That's pretty common if you read about peoples builds. I needed 6 degree shims. The best change is to reweld the spring perches but that's not always practical for some.

Look, I don't claim to know it all but heres how I attack the issues. Theres a lot of contradicting info out there, in peoples threads, website pics, and even on reputable websites (especially their pics). So I learn the reasons behind doing the various things, then square it in my own head. And maybe that's just me and my "engineer / mechanically inclined" way I process things. I always pick apart things in my head to figure out how it's done. But if you know the end goal you can chart a better path to get there.
So bottom line, the end result is a smooth, well tracking steering setup. The road there should be as trouble free and cheap as possible without parts leftover you didn't need. If you check your caster during assembly and shim if needed, you won't be tearing it apart later when you found out it didn't drive right. (and to clarify- don't tighten your u-bolts to spec when mocking up to check. Just snug them because final torquing does stretch them so you only want to do it once) And you won't be cussing out some company that said to do it differently.

I choose to piece my setup together so I got only what I needed. Shop around for prices and free shipping and out of state buying eliminates sales tax too.

 

[007]

Thanks PA. I'll take your advice. I'm by no means married to the Rocky-Road setup but I do need a good list of what I need. If I have 2-2.5 lift I DO NOT NEED SHACKLE lift so that should help with angle.

I appreciate the advice.


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[PaRenegade]

Well I can outline a list from my experience in putting an OME setup on my 82.
-Springs: they offer 3 different springs depending on your load. A #CS014 is a front light, a #CS036 is a rear heavy, and a #CS037 is a rear light. If you only have a softtop use the cs037 for the rear. If you have a don't have a winch and a V8 you can use the cs014's in the front. I have a hardtop, a winch, and a heavy front bumper so I used the cs036 rear heavies for front and rear. All the springs are the same length, 43" I believe, so are the Jeep rears but their fronts are shorter. That's why some people move the front mounts forward to the rivet hole, unless you use longer shackles.

-Bushings: OME bushings have a special design that other ones don't. They offer 2 types, greaseable #SB87 and non greaseable #SB57. I suggest the greasable type to get a smoother acting setup. They both cost the same but need to be purchased in addition to the springs (unless you go the kit route).

-Sleeves / bolts: If you get the OME bolts they are designed as are large shoulder bolt in that they are the bolt and a sleeve as one. I'm not sure if you can buy them separately or you have to buy their shackles kit to get them. I bought greaseable bolts and sleeves. A sleeve comes with the bushing packs for the stationary end of the spring (fat bushing) but they don't include the two for the shackles. The sleeves you get need to have a hole in them for the grease to get through to the bushing. I had to drill mine. The rotation point is between the bushing and sleeve, not the bolt and sleeve because the sleeve is there to keep the shackle from pinching the bushings so it's sandwiched tight by the bolt to act as one. Wrangler bushings are also 1 1/4" in diameter, where Jeeps use 1" diameter bushes.

-Shackle mount: The rear mount is fine because rear Jeep springs are 2 1/2" wide like the Wranglers. But the fronts are only 2" and your upgrading to 2 1/2" wide ones. Mountain Off Road (M.O.R.E.) makes a good set with side webs (#7686 FSH 2.5) that also are longer to address the longer spring issue. So you don't have to grind out the frame rivet and add a bolt and nut.
Factory Jeep mounts are a notorious weak point and will twist, unwind, or even crack at the rivet hole, so new ones are a good idea even when your not converting.

-Shackles: You'll need 2 1/2" wide shackles. Jeep factory length shackles have a 3" center to center bolt holes. I suggest ones with 3/8" sides for strength.

Well I think that about covers it. I hope this helps. I've been typing for a half hour!

 

[007]

So these are YJ springs then? I have no winch but do have a V8... No tops...


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[PaRenegade]

Yes, OME doesn't make springs for Jeeps anymore, only Wrangler YJ's. The difference is really in the front spring where it's longer (1") and wider (1/2"). And of course the spring rates are different and contribute to the smoother and more flexible ride.

Not sure what they recommend for a V8 other than using the CS014's and adding an extra leaf (D23XL) but I'm not sure where to source those from. I would call ARB/OME and inquire about your particular situation recommendations. You could call their Renton, Wa. office, Toll Free: (866) 293-9078, and ask for TR Burris. He's a great guy and pretty much the Jeep guru there. See what his thoughts are.

Here's a link to the parts: http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/accessorizeYourRig/jeepWranglerYJ.pdf

 

[stoney bones]

Sorry to butt into the thread but I have question about the shims....are they meant for the front or for the back?

 

[Old Dog]

Thanks PA. I'll take your advice. I'm by no means married to the Rocky-Road setup but I do need a good list of what I need. If I have 2-2.5 lift I DO NOT NEED SHACKLE lift so that should help with angle.

I appreciate the advice.


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007 neither my 4' superlift or my RE 4" lift (they are 2 1/2" wide all around like YJ's) with stock length shackles needed shims. Not to say the OME's don't, just saying I would check before I bought shims.

Sorry to butt into the thread but I have question about the shims....are they meant for the front or for the back?

Shims are used on both ends
in the front to set caster and in the rear to set the pinion angle.

 

[cuban11182]

They are for the rear. I just realized that I'm going to have to order some new leaf spring pins. I ordered some 5/16 pins for three of them (steering stabilizer takes up the difference on drivers side).

 

[stoney bones]

Shims are used on both ends
in the front to set caster and in the rear to set the pinion angle.

Just curious cause I had a BDS 4" lift installed with the YJ springs. I only have the shims in the rear. Wondering if the front doesn't need them as well.

Thanks for the info.

 

[cuban11182]

Shims were not needed on my jeep with the 2.5" BDS lift up front. I posted a picture earlier showing that my caster was at the correct angle. I ONLY used shims in the back (but they are universal from front and back), and they are a bit too large (6) and I"ll be putting in the 4's when I can. I can say that at 60-65 I have no vibration, I just see what people say about the angles and I want to make sure it's right.

 

[PaRenegade]

As was said, shims can be needed, front or rear. With the OME rear springs, at least the 036's, they have a shim attached. It's probably only a 1 or 2 degree shim I don't recall. Here is one compared to a 6 deg. shim from Warrior Products.

 

[cuban11182]

Just to further expand on my experience so far I removed the 4* shims that I bought due to a vibration that I was experiencing from 30-40. I thought they were the 6* shims that I had also purchased but was mistaken. In any case, I took it for a quick spin and there was no vibration anymore.

So this kit did not come with shims, and I don't believe it needs any. Overall I will monitor and post back if anything else pops up.

 

[PaRenegade]

How is your tracking, does it return to center and drive straight (or close to it) on it's own after making a turn? This is what caster affects.

 

[cuban11182]

It tracks fine. I never installed any shims up front and measured and it was good. It drives just as well as it did before the lift. The rear had a slight vibration that I felt from 30-40 but once I removed the 4 degree shims that I ordered in addition to the kit, it went away.