CJ, TJ, or Hybrid?

[coldwater]

I'd like to build it as close to stock as possible, yes. Really the only major mod (besides the diesel) is an flatbed/applecrate. I like parts that are perhaps stronger than stock, while not modifying too much, if at all. That's why I sometimes think that the old fashioned, simple leafspring setup is better-just Ubolts to the axle housing and no control arms etc. to worry about.


I stripped my old 1980 CJ7 to the frame, rewired it headlight to taillight with a Painless Wiring kit, and put in an 85 I-6 engine by myself. I put in headers and intake manifold from Clifford, a Cagle pressure controller, and a a Weber 32/36 carburetor, and the Jeep had lots of power. My only beef was that even when it was eight years old (I bought it in 1988) it was a rust bucket. By contrast, my TJ is 13 years old and the body has no rust at all. I originally intended to rebuild that CJ, but sold it to a cowboy who still uses it to ride the fence!


As far as the diesel, I get confused myself. I've heard it's a good idea, doable, and also that it's an absolute nightmare. I've heard that the I-6 engine can be turned into a diesel, but then how much would that cost, and will it be a major pain to fix if it breaks? I've heard a small diesel swap would be no big deal, and also that it would be a huge, exorbadently expensive underrtaking. I've heard diesels are easier to fix than gas, and visa versa. It's somewhat confusing, and frustrating. I figure if the diesel becomes out of the question I'll stick with a straight six.

This site is great because I get to hear all sorts of viewpoints. Thanks!

Well, this is my bottom line, and what my personal choices were when I did my last frame off. "I" wanter a largely stock Jeep. One I could easily work on, one that used Jeep parts as a whole so that everything was a bolt on, and didn't need a notebook of what parts I used from other vehicles when something went south on me. I stripped my 7 to the bone and used a narrow 44 in back from an old 5, a disc brake narrow 30 front, both were stripped out and completely rebuilt end to end, and used lockers. I used a soft ride 2.5" lift, a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l -6 engine, a Dana 300 TC with a T-176 tranny. Twin sticked the 300, and rebuilt both units. A centech wiring harness, and every single part on the Jeep was eather rebuilt or replaced. I used a 4WD Hdw glass body, fenders, and windshield frame. The day I finished the build, I pulled it out of the garage, and in going on 13 years, has never once broken down on me. Not once. It generally goes where I want it to, but I don't beat it in mud and try to crush mountains with it. It is one of the most reliable and capable vehicles I have ever owned. And It is just a CJ7 , nothing more. You need to decide just how big and bad you need to go to achieve your goals. In my personal opinion and experience, when used properly, the Jeep was pretty well designed out of the gate, and all I have ever needed. And I have packed away some pretty good adventures in that little 7 over the years. A Jeep is a 4 wheel drive opinion, and every owner will have their own idea of what they think is the "best" way to build. I personally prefer a largely stock unit with a few upgraded parts to help bring out It's best.

edit:...... Opinions other than mine are not valid, and should be ignored. You can do so politely, but should still be ignored.

 

[Arizona Joe]

You can use a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and or other engine, drop a chevy throttlebody, harness, and computer on it for about $300 - $500 depending on how much work you put into it.
You have an outstanding motor your familiar with, a stupid simple TBI setup, and could still stick a carb on it in a pinch if something went teets up.

Extend the TJ and make it your TJ8, ditch the computer wiring and misc, carb or TBI the motor, and swap out the dash. It would really cofuse the hell out of people to see a CJ inside a TJ skin, I've considered it.

Swap a fiberglass CJ body onto your TJ frame, you get the looks with the modern suspension setup.

The advantage of a TBI setup is you don't have to fiddle with it during a long ride especially when going up and down mountains or cold weather. Plus you could always jam a turbo on it.

Check out these links:
BustedJeep.Com - In The Garage
Swapping a CJ Dashboard Into a YJ - - Jeep at Off-Road.com

That's actually a great idea. The links were really interesting, and informative!
I have heard that it would be better to get a whole new straight 6, but it seems you are saying that I can keep mine. I would love that idea-that AMC 232 i6 I-6 in the TJ is nice, already there, and would be great to be able to keep, plus the tranny, Transfer Case , etc is all there and no customization. Since I want as little customization as possible with the mehanical stuff, that would be nice.
Do you have an idea if it is possible to extend the TJ frame's wheelbase maybe a foot or so and still keep it strong? I believe the "Brute" kit brings extenders, so it should be fine?

 

[BrockGrimes]

Yeah the brute has extensions, but not sure on where, I believe they extend the rear behind the tires.
There are alot of guys swapping a 4.0 head onto a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . Not sure what fuel system they are using but they do use the 4.0 & AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l intake it depends on who's putting it together.

Check out this thread:
Tim Weavers 40 Head Article

 

[Arizona Joe]

Well, this is my bottom line, and what my personal choices were when I did my last frame off. "I" wanter a largely stock Jeep. One I could easily work on, one that used Jeep parts as a whole so that everything was a bolt on, and didn't need a notebook of what parts I used from other vehicles when something went south on me. I stripped my 7 to the bone and used a narrow 44 in back from an old 5, a disc brake narrow 30 front, both were stripped out and completely rebuilt end to end, and used lockers. I used a soft ride 2.5" lift, a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l -6 engine, a Dana 300 TC with a T-176 tranny. Twin sticked the 300, and rebuilt both units. A centech wiring harness, and every single part on the Jeep was eather rebuilt or replaced. I used a 4WD Hdw glass body, fenders, and windshield frame. The day I finished the build, I pulled it out of the garage, and in going on 13 years, has never once broken down on me. Not once. It generally goes where I want it to, but I don't beat it in mud and try to crush mountains with it. It is one of the most reliable and capable vehicles I have ever owned. And It is just a CJ7 , nothing more. You need to decide just how big and bad you need to go to achieve your goals. In my personal opinion and experience, when used properly, the Jeep was pretty well designed out of the gate, and all I have ever needed. And I have packed away some pretty good adventures in that little 7 over the years. A Jeep is a 4 wheel drive opinion, and every owner will have their own idea of what they think is the "best" way to build. I personally prefer a largely stock unit with a few upgraded parts to help bring out It's best.

edit:...... Opinions other than mine are not valid, and should be ignored. You can do so politely, but should still be ignored.

Your CJ7 sounds ideal!
I actually very much agree with your thinking. I am starting to lean towards perhaps extending my TJ's frame a bit, chopping the body to a pickup setup, and converting the stock I-6 engine to one of those TBI setups or a good carb. I'd keep the current F.I. if I didn't need the computer. As the previous person said, I could have a new carb as a backup.

My TJ already has an OME suspension, I like the coils, and the body has no rust, so perhaps it would be best to just symplify the electronics and keep the good. I must also admit to sentimentality towards my TJ. It was the first and only vehicle I ever bought new-I've put all of the 204,400+ miles on it myself. Its been from Miami, FL to all over AZ, CO, and NC, not to mention the places in between. Its been up mountains and through swamps, and even did a 180 on black ice at 65mph and flew off of I-40 into a 20 or so foot drop near Flagstaff with me in it. (lots of snow cushioned the fall so that there wasn't even a bump).

Like you, I do not like beating up my Jeep. I'll cross mud, water, etc. as part of a journey, but I believe in finding the safe way through and using equipment like a winch, ladders, etc. when necessary. Never have seen the point of spinning the wheels and risking shredding the gears when I can winch through.

Perhaps a "TJ 8" is the ticket. :grinjeep:

 

[Arizona Joe]

Yeah the brute has extensions, but not sure on where, I believe they extend the rear behind the tires.
There are alot of guys swapping a 4.0 head onto a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . Not sure what fuel system they are using but they do use the 4.0 & AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l intake it depends on who's putting it together.

Check out this thread:
Tim Weavers 40 Head Article

Wow! Great article!

It's nice to see Clifford Performance! I put headers and intake manifold from them on my CJ7 years ago and it made a very nice difference!

 

[BrockGrimes]

I saw a TJ once the PO had blown the motor so decided to sell it.
A guy bought it and swapped in a carb'd AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , etc. etc. It looked like a stock
TJ but had the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , I believe a T-18 and a 300 can't recall offhand for sure.
But I remember the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . It was cool.

 

[coldwater]

Your CJ7 sounds ideal!
I actually very much agree with your thinking. I am starting to lean towards perhaps extending my TJ's frame a bit, chopping the body to a pickup setup, and converting the stock I-6 engine to one of those TBI setups or a good carb. I'd keep the current F.I. if I didn't need the computer. As the previous person said, I could have a new carb as a backup.

My TJ already has an OME suspension, I like the coils, and the body has no rust, so perhaps it would be best to just symplify the electronics and keep the good. I must also admit to sentimentality towards my TJ. It was the first and only vehicle I ever bought new-I've put all of the 204,400+ miles on it myself. Its been from Miami, FL to all over AZ, CO, and NC, not to mention the places in between. Its been up mountains and through swamps, and even did a 180 on black ice at 65mph and flew off of I-40 into a 20 or so foot drop near Flagstaff with me in it. (lots of snow cushioned the fall so that there wasn't even a bump).

Like you, I do not like beating up my Jeep. I'll cross mud, water, etc. as part of a journey, but I believe in finding the safe way through and using equipment like a winch, ladders, etc. when necessary. Never have seen the point of spinning the wheels and risking shredding the gears when I can winch through.

Perhaps a "TJ 8" is the ticket. :grinjeep:

Well there you go. A funny thing with Jeeps. Even though they are dead objects made of rubber and steel, and wil not only never care for you, but will try to break your heart every damn chance they get A real Jeeper will still worry over them like a sick child, and keep spending money on them like a you were trying to keep a cheating wife! If you dont mind chopping up your TJ, then have at it. But do keep in mind that a frame extension behind the wheels, will detract from your departure angle, and "can" be an issue in a tight spot. Only you will know if that will be a real world issue. Or, you can keep your old buddy to tool around in, and get yourself a new mistress (the tried and true CJ) and build your dream on the simplist and toughest little platform in history. You have much to think about my friend.

 

[Arizona Joe]

Well there you go. A funny thing with Jeeps. Even though they are dead objects made of rubber and steel, and wil not only never care for you, but will try to break your heart every damn chance they get A real Jeeper will still worry over them like a sick child, and keep spending money on them like a you were trying to keep a cheating wife! If you dont mind chopping up your TJ, then have at it. But do keep in mind that a frame extension behind the wheels, will detract from your departure angle, and "can" be an issue in a tight spot. Only you will know if that will be a real world issue. Or, you can keep your old buddy to tool around in, and get yourself a new mistress (the tried and true CJ) and build your dream on the simplist and toughest little platform in history. You have much to think about my friend.

True, one cannot help but become attached to these little, capable machines. The only frame extension I would do is to extend the wheelbase, and that may not be wise for something that will experience the torque of off-roading. A CJ8 frame would be what I would use. It may indeed be best to keep the TJ as-is and build up an 8 pickup as its partner-this way, when friends visit, they can borrow one and we can go outback in a better way. If the TJ ever gets to the point electronically that it is just too much trouble, then I can gut the modern and convert it to tbi. I'd then have a medium wheelbase Jeep and a long base Jeep. This however, leaves a void that must eventually be filled by a CJ5 , or perhaps a CJ2a , or an MB...
:grinjeep: