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Hi I just finished doing the team rush upgrade on my 1974 CJ, I used a motorcraft distributor, msd cap and rotor, e-core coil and summit racing cdi module.
Jeep will crank but does not want to start, I did get it to start but it backfired and idled really low, ( around 300/400 rpm) and wanted to die.
I have verified that I had tdc on compression stroke by attaching a balloon to my compression tester hose, when it inflated I brought the balancer up to tdc and verified that my rotor was pointing to #1 on my cap which it is.
I also bypassed the resistor wire and installed the small red wire from cdi module directly to the wire running back to my ignition switch.
I advanced the distributor as far is it will go because now the vacuum canister is hitting the fuel line to fuel pump, it starts and idles but only around 500 rpm, needs to be around 600 to set timing.
1978 CJ7
Silver paint with black hard top on 33" radials & eagle alumium rims. Good looking ride and have done lots of work to make it look and run great.
Stock equipment is 258 carb, power brakes, power steering, hard top & hard doors (per vehicle gross weight) tilt steering wheel, big brake package with large rotars & drums, T18 Trans with low 6.4 granny gear, Dana 20 transfer, Dana 30 front axle, Dana 44HD rear axle with 3.73 gears. True Trac ft & rear.
I was around jeeps in the 70's and drove a 1973 Jeep Truck. My family had 4 jeeps at the time. We also joined a jeep club back then too. So about 6 years ago looked for a Jeep CJ and found the vehicle above.
Hi I just finished doing the team rush upgrade on my 1974 CJ, I used a motorcraft distributor, msd cap and rotor, e-core coil and summit racing cdi module.
Jeep will crank but does not want to start, I did get it to start but it backfired and idled really low, ( around 300/400 rpm) and wanted to die.
I have verified that I had tdc on compression stroke by attaching a balloon to my compression tester hose, when it inflated I brought the balancer up to tdc and verified that my rotor was pointing to #1 on my cap which it is.
I also bypassed the resistor wire and installed the small red wire from cdi module directly to the wire running back to my ignition switch.
I say your post over on JeepForum also.... I have a few suggestions and what it could be... you have the same ignition as I do and I love it....
I am going to ask you to remove the dist again, find TDC, install your Dist again, Verify What Adv Curve your Dist it may need to be exchanged/ modified, verify balancer has not spun, make sure the dist has good electrical connections, and you have the wires where you should.... This will be a process and need to do all of it... At the end of my verbage will be Jeephammers write up on how to do TDC/Install/Balancer with more and not sense in me writing it again...
This will be a good exersize for you and this forum...
Remove your dist
Take off the dist cap and look down the 2-3 small holes... YOu will see the advance limit slots... We are looking for 13R & 18R stamps..... Could also be 5R & 8R. This is the mechanical advance slots we want the 13/18R one.... If you purchase new/rebuilt... see if they will order one or two more in so you can get the NON computer dist... big difference and will run much better. Tell me what you have adn if you go new or if this is from junk yard or such
The dist has a magnetic pick up coil with a relector/metal fin that spins by the coil and generates a low level signal.... This low level signal is mili amps/volts.... and it tells you MSD to fire. We need this to be a strong signal and protect it.. So it gets ground from the mtd bolt and hold down.... If the threaded hole is all dirty use a thread chaser and clean it up its the ground path, get some copper antiseize and put it down the threaded hole, clean up the bolt threads with wire wheel add same copper ant...., if you painted the hold down clamp wire wheel off the paint / rust on the two hold down fingers and where the bolt pushes down on the clamp..... again this is your gound path.... Can add a bit of copper a.... to those three spots too if you want... Guys often say i moved dist and now it work, you did to, sometimes its just lack of elect ground.. If you had the hole Duraspark Ignition Dist we would be adding aux ground also but not needed. Look at the flange of dist if very corroed clean up the alumium flange too...
Dist low level signal
Needs protection.... twist these wire 2-3 turns per inch.... This will cut down on noise and cross talk type stuff. Must be done! This low level signal wire needs to be run by itself. Wires that have high voltage and switched will have lots of magnetic flux lines and will mess up the lower level signal.... So THE MSD, Coill Power, Spark Plug Wires, Blower Motor, Fans etc can mess up the signal and then the MSD Igntion will not fire right. Run the Dist Wires along the fender and firewall when you can they metal acts like a electircal shield and cuts down the magnetic flux noise that can induce currents of their own.... If you understand great if not just trust me. The more // parralles these wires are the more noise that can happen.... Example if you run the Dist Wire with the Coil power wire that fires 6x for every cylinder fire there will be tons of issues.
Cars work on DC Voltage power.....
This means that all power that leaves batter to MSD to the spark plug to the head needs to get back to battery.... Any fault in the path will mess up your engine, componets, and ignition.... I want you to add a aux ground to your head (s) and use a black insualtion/typical gound color... I guess you have AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l but not said, so you have one or two heads to ground. The oil varnish, gaskets do not make good ground paths.... This can help lots.... I want you to pull your spark plugs, will help for TDC work also, write down want each one looks like, maybe take pics, #1 front and #6 by firewall. After we TDC/Insert Dist/Balacer Ck I want you to add some copper anti... to the spark plug threads it will help with ground and stop corrosion.... Do this on all your veh exp if alumum heads because alumium/steel thread do Galvonic Corrosion and its not conductive.... plus alumium oxide is not conductive.... again spark plugs and the spark need a great gound path.... this is how you do it...
New spark plug wires.
What did you get? JH like MSD cut to fit and they are the best. I also use the Napa Dark Navy Belden wires with lifetime warranty... but have a few fail after 1.5 yr with the msd. OHM out each wire and write it down what you got 100-500 ohms pretty common for new and after yr will be 500-2000 ohms that is why I write them down.... I do not think your issue but easy to do and gives us the base line.... also if you have a open spark plug wire we find it now and it can be replaced. Many are bad out of the box i might add to.
If you dropped a spark plug do not use it replace it
Distributor Advance Slot...
Let me know what you have... if not 13/18R will they get a 2 more for you to select from. With what you have, teamrush, you most likely asked for a 78/1979 dist for the non computer years... but the remaned distributors are the same part number for the 1980s and the 1970 so they just give you what they have and you have to look.... so let me know what you have.
If junk yard Distributor...
I can tell you how to modify the mech advance slot so you will get good pep and great mileage.... so many jeepers are getting low to mid teens in mileage or less because they have so little mech advance that is dependent on engine rpms.... If we go the route of mod the mech advance slot will also suggest we change the mech advance springs with the Mr Gasket 925 two spring pack.... This will depend also on the tires size / axle gearing also...... tall gears & big tires need a conservative advance or you will rattle your engine.... So I need to hear back from you before we do these steps in this paragraph.
The Balancer
Is made up of out and inner ring of metal with rubber middle. the rubber get dry and can be spun so you cannot time right. We can use TDC process to make sure this is not a issue.... so use the JH write up below... these are necessary steps.
After we go thru all of this if we still have issues ....
There could be a rotar phase issue with your DuarSpark Dist.... it can be fixed and I can show you... Example ... I just regeared axles to 3.73 with lockers from the 3.54 stock gears, now was the time for me to use the 18R larger mech advance slot because I have less lugging on the engine so I thought "she" could take the extra 5 deg of mech advance slots and would help on my why mileage. Also had to rejet and adj my weber at the same time.... BUT i had a miss at high rpms at 3500 to 4400 rpms when all the advance was going in. Well I was getting spark scatter or a small miss alignment to the rotar nose as the ADVANCE Mech was taking place so my larger mechanical advance/vac advance/initial 6deg was toooo much and the nose swepts past the terminal in the cap..... it can be adjusted...... but this is advance stuff so lets get better base line and see where we are.
Getting the idea you got the right guy???
How To Verify Your Valve/Crankshaft Timing &
Set A Distributor.
If you don't have a good working knowledge of shop safety practices, DON'T ATTEMPT THIS!
If you don't possess common sense or self preservation instincts, DON'T ATTEMPT THIS!
Safety warnings are in RED, Do Not Ignore These!
I can not possibly list all the potential ways you can get hurt doing anything you read or see here, so YOU MUST ASSUME ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR SAFETY!
ALL STEPS REQUIRED, DO NOT SKIP ANYTHING OR THE RESULTS WON'T BE ACCURATE
Finding The #1 Cylinder
The #1 cylinder is the first to fire in your firing order (more on firing orders, click here). If you are working on an Inline engine (all the cylinders in a row) the #1 cylinder will be the first one, closest to the radiator.
If you are working on a 'V' style engine (V-4, V-6, V-8, V-10), one cylinder will be farther ahead of the rest.
Look to see which cylinder head is closer to the radiator, and the front cylinder that will be #1.
Finding Top Dead Center (TDC).
Disconnect the ignition coil before cranking the engine.
Take out the spark plug of the #1 cylinder.
Cover the #1 spark plug hole...
Use a Lightly pushed in cork or other relatively soft item that won't react badly with gasoline.
DO NOT stick your finger in the hole, only cover it. Compression on modern engines is sufficient to remove your fingernail and infuse gasoline into your skin.
Crank the engine over until the cork is pushed out. IMMEDIATELY STOP CRANKING!
Locate the crankshaft snout bolt, You will find this bolt in the center of the lower pulley.
Place your finger OVER the hole, and crank the engine clockwise with a hand ratchet by the crank shaft snout bolt.
Removing the other spark plugs may make this task easier. Resist the urge to use the starter...
You will feel the compression stroke start even when cranking by hand.
When you feel the compression stroke start, use a 1/4" wooden dowel rod (wooden chopsticks work well) to feel for the top of the piston through the #1 spark plug hole. DO NOT USE METAL LIKE A SCREW DRIVER!
You want to use the dowel rod and the crankshaft to locate the piston at the very top of the compression stroke.
Side Bar
It is possible to have the piston at the top, and still not have 'Compression Stroke'.
The crankshaft rotates two complete revolutions for each time the #1 cylinder fires.
The strokes are,
'Intake Stroke', when the piston is going down with the intake valve open, drawing Charge Mixture (gasoline & air) into the cylinder, At the bottom of the 'Intake Stroke', the Intake Valve closes, and the 'Compression Stroke' starts.
The piston comes back up with both valves closed, and compresses the Charge mixture, this is the 'Compression Stroke'
This is the stroke you are looking for Top Dead Center (TDC) of.
The cylinder contents are compressed, then the ignition fires when the piston is more or less at the top.
Expanding gasses drive the piston down, this is the 'Power Stroke'.
When the piston reaches the bottom of the 'Power Stroke', the Exhaust Valve opens, and the piston comes back up, pushing out the spent gasses.
As the piston rolls over the top of the 'Exhaust Stroke', the exhaust valve closes, and the intake valve opens starting the process again.
(Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow)
As you can see, it is very possible to find the top of the 'Exhaust Stroke' instead of the top of the 'Compression Stroke' you are actually looking for.
Once the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC) of the 'Compression Stroke'...
Verifying The Balancer & Timing Tab
So Called 'Harmonic Balancers' is mounted behind the lower engine pulley, and have a solid hub, usually cast iron, a layer of rubber, and a steel ring on the outside.
The 'Timing' mark is usually on the outside of this steel ring.
There should be a 'Timing Tab' or 'Timing Marks' mounted on the front of the engine that correspond.
Now, if everything is working correctly, the timing mark on the balancer should be lined up with the '0'(zero) mark on the timing scale.
Things that can go wrong are,
The outside ring of the balancer will break free of the hub and slip around the hub, causing the 'Timing Mark' to be in the wrong place.
The 'Timing Tab' can get bent, damaged or completely removed. Also, if the engine has been 'Rebuilt', it's not unusual for the wrong front cover and/or balancer to be put back on.
Some engines required an offset key to hold the balancer in the correct position, if that key has been replaced, it may not be the correct one.
Aftermarket parts (like chrome parts) are often, "One size fits all..." and are not appropriate for your engine.
If you have found the top of 'Compression Stroke', and verified the balancer and timing tab, you are ready to set the new distributor in place or verify the timing of your current distributor.
Verifying An Existing Distributor
(If you are installing a new distributor, skip to the next step.)
Use a 'magic marker' and mark the position of the #1 spark plug wire tower on the base of the distributor and remove the distributor cap.
If you have the piston at the top of the 'Compression Stroke' on the #1 cylinder, the Rotor nose should be pointed at the mark you just made on the distributor body (within a few degrees).
If the rotor pointed exactly away from the #1 mark you made, then one of two things is probably wrong,
1. You located the top of the 'Exhaust Stroke' instead of the 'Compression Stroke',
OR...
2. Your distributor is installed '180° Out'... (this is very common on inline engines)
If your Rotor nose is anywhere else, you need to start over and VERIFY EVERYTHING...
It's possible for the gear to be installed incorrectly on the distributor shaft, it's possible for timing chains to have stretched and jumped teeth, it's possible for distributor to camshaft gears to be so worn they will 'jump' teeth, ect.
Installing The Distributor
Distributors have sprial cut drive gears, so the distributor shafts rotate when installed as the distributor gear moves around the stationary camshaft gear.
To Compensate for this, you will have to know what direction the distributor rotates, what your firing order is, where #1 plug wire is supposed to be located, and mark that location on the distributor base.
1. To determine rotation direction, vacuum advance always pulls against distributor rotation, Look Here. 2. #1 plug wire tower is usually marked on good quality distributor caps, if not, Look Here.
Install the rotor and distributor cap on the distributor and mark the location of the #1 plug wire terminal and direction the rotor travels on the distributor base.
Remove the cap, but leave the rotor in place.
Now, back the rotor nose against rotation about half way between terminals. This would be between the last terminal fired, and the #1 terminal.
Drop the distributor in the hole until the drive gears meet. DO NOT FORCE THE DISTRIBUTOR GEARS!
Most distributors will NOT engage fully when dropped into the hole.
The problem is the oil pump drive shaft is turned by the bottom of the distributor gear, and the two pieces will not line up on the first try.
To get the distributor to seat fully, you will have to rotate the engine BY HAND, TWO COMPLETE REVOLUTIONS, while putting some down pressure on the distributor (don't push hard).
The distributor may drop into place in just a few degrees, but you will have to make TWO COMPLETE REVOLUTIONS of the crankshaft to bring the engine back to Top Dead Center of the #1 cylinder determined by the timing mark and timing tab you verified earlier.
Resist the urge to turn the engine backwards, always turn the engine clockwise (top of the crankshaft pulley towards the drivers side fender). Turning backwards is VERY hard on crankshaft bearings.
Once you have seated the distributor housing and found TDC of #1 again,
Check to make sure the vacuum advance canister is in the correct location, and check the rotor nose in relationship to the mark you made on the distriburor housing.
If the rotor nose is pointing (within about 5° or so) at the mark, you are ready to install the distributor cap and plug wires.
If the rotor nose is NOT pointing at your mark (half way between terminals, too far ahead, too far behind) you will need to pull the distributor and try again, compensating for the alignment problem. (farther forward or backward in the rotation.)
Smaller diameter drive gears (GM, AMC for example) tend to need more rotor rotation before install, and larger diameter drive gears (Ford for example) tend to need less rotor rotation.
1978 CJ7
Silver paint with black hard top on 33" radials & eagle alumium rims. Good looking ride and have done lots of work to make it look and run great.
Stock equipment is 258 carb, power brakes, power steering, hard top & hard doors (per vehicle gross weight) tilt steering wheel, big brake package with large rotars & drums, T18 Trans with low 6.4 granny gear, Dana 20 transfer, Dana 30 front axle, Dana 44HD rear axle with 3.73 gears. True Trac ft & rear.
I was around jeeps in the 70's and drove a 1973 Jeep Truck. My family had 4 jeeps at the time. We also joined a jeep club back then too. So about 6 years ago looked for a Jeep CJ and found the vehicle above.
I would also like to see some pics of you engine bay...
Top center, pass side, pass side closer up of dist area, and drivers side.
Post your pics to Photobucket.com and put the links here in your thread so I can see what you have... it will help me help you....
After you get your ignition going, you will need to adj your carb again... it may also need bigger jets the MSD made my Weber a bit lean its a much better ignition. Then go back to your time again.... Time Light and Vac Gauge are valuable tools.... Vac Gauge is like $20 at advance auto and time lights are way less now then they used to be. Once both are set I go with initial of 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and see what I like best. I record all my stuff in note book so I can duplicate again.... also nice for the next owner.
I can help you adj your carb and verify your jets are in the right range also.
1978 CJ7
Silver paint with black hard top on 33" radials & eagle alumium rims. Good looking ride and have done lots of work to make it look and run great.
Stock equipment is 258 carb, power brakes, power steering, hard top & hard doors (per vehicle gross weight) tilt steering wheel, big brake package with large rotars & drums, T18 Trans with low 6.4 granny gear, Dana 20 transfer, Dana 30 front axle, Dana 44HD rear axle with 3.73 gears. True Trac ft & rear.
I was around jeeps in the 70's and drove a 1973 Jeep Truck. My family had 4 jeeps at the time. We also joined a jeep club back then too. So about 6 years ago looked for a Jeep CJ and found the vehicle above.
for most of our CJ/Jeeps use it would be reading spark plugs at idle, town and hwy driving. Evlauation any hesitation for off idle and primary to secondary operation... modern unleaded fuels make reading the spark plugs harder than it used to be because the new fuels show less color
air/fuel ratios can also be read with a O2 Sensor & Analyser... still take knowledge to use it properly. Wide Bands can be purchased and rented and you can pay someone else to do it
Lots of carb threads out there... and many publish the jets they are using and will show a range.... For example most stock type internals for AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l will have run jets in the 47/48 range. 47/48 are the metric drill bit size for the hole & would be true across a variety of carb used on 258s. Also when evaluting the change in jet use the AREA not the Diameter.... Area is Pie x Radius Squared, the the area has Squared Factor. I use this to get a percent change for evalution and see how much fuel I am adding or subtracting....
Proper running ignitions, better ignitions like MSD, changes to exhaust and intakes, are changes that may require carb and tune changes and may include jet changes. Changes in altitude may also require jet changes... This is the reason I tell jeepers to get their ignition, aux grounds, headers, intake leaks, advance curve and all the stuff right before they do all the finnal settings... it all works together....
1/47 change is 2.13%
(47/2) sq x pie vs (48/2) sq x pie change is 1734 vs 1809 is 4.32%
So does the 48 vs 47 jet have a 2.13% or 4.32% change??
First thing I would do is double check all of the plug wires are correct. I had a similar issue with HEI dist only to find #2 and #8 were swapped. Sometimes it's the simple things we overlook.
First thing I would do is double check all of the plug wires are correct. I had a similar issue with HEI dist only to find #2 and #8 were swapped. Sometimes it's the simple things we overlook.
And I just had a similar problem and moved a single tooth over. It worked out fine...