Coolant leaking past lifter, onto camshaft and into crankcase-yeah, that' what I said

[mooncruiser]

84 CJ7 AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l motor- I dropped my oil pan to replace the rear main seal since it had been leaking pretty bad. Was not having any issues with coolant in the oil or running hot,etc., just need to replace the rear seal.
The next morning I walk out to the garage to reinstall the pan and there are drops of coolant under the blockI was trying to figure out where it was coming from(it's not coming from outside, it's leaking internally, so I pressurized the radiator to about 30psi. The coolant is dripping from above the cam, intake lobe. It looks like somehow it is leaking past the lifter!!!
When I bought it a month ago, PO said he had replaced the head gasket(it was obvious up above that it was done, new gaskets) because he had found coolant in the crankcase-supposedly he had the head milled before reinstalling. The Jeep was running fine but I noticed in the last few days that a lifter was making noise after it had sat for awhile(maybe it was the coolant) I don't know if the head gasket blew out again or what-not sure how good of a job the PO did-he seemed pretty inexperienced.
I've talked to a couple engine shops and a Jeep shop that's been here in Tucson for 40 years and they were stumped. Basically just said pull the head and go from there.
I was just wondering if anyone had ever had this problem? I'm hoping the block isn't cracked. If it's the head at least I can fix that, the block becomes a boat anchor if it's cracked.
Coolant is the red Toyota type-I have gallons of the stuff. So you'll see oil on the lobe to the right and red coolant on the left lobe-
Thanks for any ideas or suggestions you might have??

 

[Torxhead]

The later model 258s do not have any history of cracked blocks or heads that I am aware of. The lifter clatter in the #1 hole area as you describe is common, that lifter(I don't remember which one it is) is slow to fill up with oil. All I can suggest is to disassemble and trace down the problem. A compression check with the radiator cap off might not be a bad idea prior to doing any work.

 

[7D8CJ]

I've seen the heads crack on 4.0's. You can usually see coolant straight down under the oil cap. If not , remove the valve cover and pressure test the cooling system.

 

[mooncruiser]

I've seen the heads crack on 4.0's. You can usually see coolant straight down under the oil cap. If not , remove the valve cover and pressure test the cooling system.

I'll try that before I pull the head, thx

 

[jasonmark1993]

Its possible that an intake bolt or the gasket is seaping some coolant and its running down.

Edit; thinking of a v8, oops

 

[CJim7]

Its possible that an intake bolt or the gasket is seaping some coolant and its running down.

Edit; thinking of a v8, oops

You're kind of on mark....there is one headbolt that needs sealed as it penetrates the water jacket at the front of the block.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Hey there you go; maybe the po didnt use pipe dope on the head or intake bolts.

Before I tore it all down Id just pull one at a time and check. Do it cold and maybe you'll get lucky and maintain a seal.

 

[mooncruiser]

I pulled the head yesterday and took it to the machine shop-no real obvious signs of a blown gasket but the machinist is going to look over, magnaflux it and make sure it isn't cracked or warped. We did notice that the head had a new surface on it-po said he had the head milled before he installed it.
As far as the sealant on the threads, I don't think there was any, the threads were kind of cruddy like they didn't clean them prior to reinstalling the head.
Tops of pistons didn't look bad-it wasn't getting coolant into the cylinders. It wasn't overheating and no coolant or steam from the tail pipe.
Here's a couple pics of the pistons from the top-

 

[mooncruiser]

I pulled the head yesterday and took it to the machine shop-no real obvious signs of a blown gasket but the machinist is going to look over, magnaflux it and make sure it isn't cracked or warped. We did notice that the head had a new surface on it-po said he had the head milled before he installed it.
As far as the sealant on the threads, I don't think there was any, the threads were kind of cruddy like they didn't clean them prior to reinstalling the head.
Tops of pistons didn't look bad-it wasn't getting coolant into the cylinders. It wasn't overheating and no coolant or steam from the tail pipe.
Here's a couple pics of the pistons from the top-

Ok here's the pics-sorry, technical problems

 

[mooncruiser]

pictures with the head off-sorry, posted wrong ones previously

 

[mooncruiser]

Today I spoke to the machine shop and he found the head to be straight(po just had it milled before I bought it), pressure tested and magnafluxed and there are no cracks whatsoever. I really wanted that head to be cracked! I think I'm done with this motor.

So basically the shop, very reputable 30+ year old shop with the same owner here in Tucson, said I have an internal crack in the block, somewhere in the pushrod/lifter area and this block is toast.

I am headed to Phoenix in the morning to pick up a complete 4.0 including wiring harness and computer out of a 2001 Cherokee with 65,000 miles $500. I can't see spending way more building a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , once I found a builder or buying a long block. I should be able to do this swap, get fuel injection and way more HP for a lot less money-maybe a blessing in disguise!

Very soon I will have the long block (my AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l ) valve cover to oil pan for sale with the following- a Weber 32/36, Team Rush converted distributor, Ford E2 coil, brand-new Melling hi volume oil pump, aluminum stock intake, stock exhaust manifold, aluminum valve cover that I'll be selling -along with the head that I just had checked and verified by the machine shop all going up for sale very soon if anyone is interested.

One problem with this motor is that it's extremely dirty internally, lots of crud, just filthy in the pushrod area, oil pan- the oil pump pickup was packed half full of crud when I originally dropped the pan to do the rear seal. Looks like they did very few oil changes.
I also noticed when I took the radiator to have flushed and checked that it was full of stop-leak. Nothing was wrong with the radiator, the guy didn't even charge me to flow check and inspect-I just did it originally for preventative maintenance.

The machinist also said it look like someone had ran a lot of stop leak through it.

The head gasket was NOT compromised anywhere-so the only explanation for the coolant leaking past the lifter into the crankcase is an internal crack.

 

[derf]

I'm a little late to this discussion but one thing to suggest:

Get a new set of head bolts. Some time ago, the factories started to use torque-to-yield bolts that can really only be used once. If you try to reuse them you get false torque readings and that causes leaking gaskets in no time.

Using a new gasket and sealant on the proper bolts and you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[mooncruiser]

I'm a little late to this discussion but one thing to suggest:

Get a new set of head bolts. Some time ago, the factories started to use torque-to-yield bolts that can really only be used once. If you try to reuse them you get false torque readings and that causes leaking gaskets in no time.

Using a new gasket and sealant on the proper bolts and you shouldn't have any problems.

Thanks Derf-only thing was that the pattern on the head and the gasket didn't show any leakage.

 

[mooncruiser]

Decided against the 4.0 for now-too expensive to buy the harness from Hesco and then have to change all the components-injectors,MAP, SS,etc. I talked to Benny at Hesco and he said the harness they sell fits components on 91-96 4.0's and that I would need to change all the components-apparently the 2001 and 97 up, are proprietary connectors from Chrysler and Hesco can't make the harness.
I still might go get that 4.0...it only has 65k on it and it's $500. I'll stick it in the garage to do at a better time.
I have a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l on it's way-supposed to have 87k and a good engine, complete

 

[derf]

Thanks Derf-only thing was that the pattern on the head and the gasket didn't show any leakage.

I caught that after I posted. I'd double check the block for signs of leakage at the gasket just to be completely certain but it's most likely a crack in the block.

Though it doesn't hurt to have that post in there for the next person who's having leaking heads.

 

[Omahacj]

Just looking at the pics and seeing all the crud seems like the po didnt cleaned the block to good and being a longer head the most standard engines I have had many re-do's from someone doing a head gasket and not getting the block or head clean. Have also had a cracked intake leaking past valves and would only leak when was up to temp and leave a little for start up.

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I know some engines corrode from the inside out. Some Fords will actually corrode through the oil feed line. Sometimes it can be repaired, sometimes not.

Have you heard back from the machine shop yet?

 

[mooncruiser]

I know some engines corrode from the inside out. Some Fords will actually corrode through the oil feed line. Sometimes it can be repaired, sometimes not.

Have you heard back from the machine shop yet?

Yes I did, the head is perfect and not warped and valves are sealing like they should. He said that I most likely have a crack in the block. We had an extremely cold (for us desert dwellers) January last year and a lot of people were not prepared-had a couple days where it dipped to the low teens and did not go above 30. One day it stayed below 25 so it froze a lot of things. I lost 4 California Pepper trees on my property.
So, lots of broken pipes and many people with older vehicles that weren't running anti-freeze cracked some blocks. I talked to a couple different machine shops and they were quite busy last year.
When I first picked up this Jeep it had a leaky freeze plug on the exhaust manifold side-I replaced those and they were extremely corroded-paper thin from corrosion(idiots that only run water). One fell into the block and I was able to reach in and pull it out with my fingers. There was lots of "" laying along the bottom of that water jacket. I'm afraid someone has been chasing this problem for awhile. Lucky me!

 

[derf]

Yes I did, the head is perfect and not warped and valves are sealing like they should. He said that I most likely have a crack in the block. We had an extremely cold (for us desert dwellers) January last year and a lot of people were not prepared-had a couple days where it dipped to the low teens and did not go above 30. One day it stayed below 25 so it froze a lot of things. I lost 4 California Pepper trees on my property.
So, lots of broken pipes and many people with older vehicles that weren't running anti-freeze cracked some blocks. I talked to a couple different machine shops and they were quite busy last year.
When I first picked up this Jeep it had a leaky freeze plug on the exhaust manifold side-I replaced those and they were extremely corroded-paper thin from corrosion(idiots that only run water). One fell into the block and I was able to reach in and pull it out with my fingers. There was lots of "" laying along the bottom of that water jacket. I'm afraid someone has been chasing this problem for awhile. Lucky me!

Yeah, sounds like you need to dust off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

The block will be worth enough as scrap to at least get a couple of beers.

 

[CJim7]

Yeah, sounds like you need to dust off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

...They mostly come at night. Mostly..