Custom Roll Cage - Ideas

Custom Roll Cage - Ideas
Chevy350 CJ7

Chevy350 CJ7

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Location
Simi Valley, CA
Vehicle(s)
1982 CJ-7, Chevy 350, TH400, Reverse 2 1/2" shackles, 33 BFG Muds, Ford 9" with Detroit Locker, Front Diff - Powerlock, EMU YJ Springs, custom roll cage, herculiner interior.
My CJ7 went into the fab shop today for a custom front to back roll cage. I've been reading about tying the cage to the frame and heard that it will make the cage more rigid. Also seen pics of guys rolling over without it tied to the cage and having body bend with the cage, then you have a real mess on your hands. My concern is that I won't be bolting the seats into the cage as I'll lose the ability to move the seats forward in order to get in and out from the back. Any other thoughts or ideas?
 
Some talk in this thread, even though it discusses a 'glass tub, still same principal.
http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f7/adding-rollcage-fiberglass-tub-please-help-3736/

I like having the cage tied in. Rule on the seats is the seats and the seatbelts should be tied to the same point. Either the cage or the tub. Not one each.

Glad I had mine tied in here. (Yes, we did pull the Jeep level using the cage.)

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Chevy350 CJ7 said:
My concern is that I won't be bolting the seats into the cage as I'll lose the ability to move the seats forward in order to get in and out from the back. Any other thoughts or ideas?
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They can still be mounted so they can move. :confused:
 
Old Dog said:
They can still be mounted so they can move. :confused:
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I have the brackets that mold to the CJ body, so the seats fold all the way forward for people to get in the back. I would have to buy new brackets and I would be sitting another 3 - 4 inches higher, since their will be tubing between the body and the bracket...
 
Chevy350 CJ7 said:
I have the brackets that mold to the CJ body, so the seats fold all the way forward for people to get in the back. I would have to buy new brackets and I would be sitting another 3 - 4 inches higher, since their will be tubing between the body and the bracket...
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Your right you would need to find shorter brackets or mod your old ones.
I would think that seats that folded forward with sliders would give you enough room. Much like a normal car.
It seems that every mod we make leads to another mod to make the first one work right.:) I think the term is opening a can of worms.
 
Depending on how you do the cage it will be darn near impossible to get into the back seat anyway. I don't know too many adults who don't just climb thru the middle to get to the rear seat anyway.
 
If you tie the roll cage into the frame I see no reason to mount the seats to the roll cage. Both the cage and the body are supported by the frame, the problem would arise when the body transmitted force from the roll cage to the frame and is not strong enough to withstand it. The body and the seats are not falling off of the frame just because the roll cage is connected to the frame. The way I visualize the frame attaching to the roll cage would, in effect give you at least six more body to frame mount points.
 
I can tell you how it feels to total a Jeep at 75 mph riding upside down on the cage for 125 yards down a crowded freeway.
My vote is for not tied to frame and let the body get bent, it adsorbs a lot of the energy that would be transferred to your body if you had it tied to teh frame. But that is just me.
 
BajaEdition said:
I can tell you how it feels to total a Jeep at 75 mph riding upside down on the cage for 125 yards down a crowded freeway.
My vote is for not tied to frame and let the body get bent, it adsorbs a lot of the energy that would be transferred to your body if you had it tied to teh frame. But that is just me.
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That's an interesting thought. I always thought the most secure would be to have the roll cage bolted to the frame but after reading BajaEdition's post it reminds me of race car crashes where the engine and front end fly off one direction and the roll cage and driver go another. The driver comes out almost unhurt. It's also like the philosophy of crumple zones - the hell with the rest of the vehicle, protect the driver compartment.
 
That is an interesting thought, were you riding on a six point or four point roll bar??:confused::oops:
 
I really dont know if i would tie it into the frame, just coming from a perspective that mine is tied into the frame, and i have a "glass tub" but now i have a new steel body to go on mine and that means i will be cutting my roll bar, but i lucked out and found a 7 roll bar in town but just if you ever want to take the tub off or do anything with body off it makes it a pain in the A** to do anything like that.
 
Tie it to the frame, I've seen a roller over that went from the road down into a ditch and it folded the bottom legs of the cage sideways and squashed the cage down on the occupants.
 
here is my tale, first factory roll cages are :dung:, very thin and bend easily, custom roll cages usually are built fron much thicker metal, I would not trust a factory roll cage to protect me from getting hit by a bug, they bend to easy. I also do not like 4 point cages, they do not protect any thing.
A proper cage sounld have a main loop behind the seats, coming from that it should have 2 seta of bars running to the rear, with at least one bar between them. I also like to see the front two points connected to both the floor and the dash. it should have a rectangular frame going around the winsheild and off of that 2 barss going to the main loop, behind the seats is a bar located at a height for the 4 or 5 point seat belts shoulder straps to be properly positioned to not be pulling from the floor where they can cause the seat to tear loose.
I do not tie to frame on a steel tub as I use the crumple of the body as energy adsorbing crumple zone, A cage such as this is not going bend much at all. Like I said I flipped my Tj at 75 on a freeway and the damage to the body totaled the jeep, I walked away with a small abrasion on my wrist. the windshield was ground and bent to the rectangular upper support, The CHP officer who worked the wreck told me the 2 upper bars from the windshield frame and the main support saved my life as they kept my head from being ground off by adding support to the roll cage. He also said it was one of the best cages he had ever seen.
I got the design from my days building cars for SCTA land speed racing. It is part of their rules, and nowhere in those rules do they say to tie to frame in a steel bodied vihicle. They do make you build fully enclosed cages that are part of the frame for certain types of vehicles, and those types usually are designed where the driver and drive train do separate and I have seen this save a few lifes. But in most of the wrecks I have seen working patrol for the SCTA, I have never seen a correctly built cage fail. I have seen 2 people killed in wrecks, but most have walked away. Reason for both deaths was severe trama from forces of the wreck, both were in cars classed as lakesters, which require a full enclosing cage, 360 degrees around the driver.
 
Good insight BajaEdition. The cage that I'm building is a six point cage. We're not "hooping" it from driver to passenger, but front to back. I think it's a better look. The supports will be on top of the dash over the steering wheel and one behind the seats (also to mount the 5 point harnesses). With the standard supports on the front corners and another one vertically aligned with the support behind the seat. We're using 4130 chromly.

My family is in the off-race business, building performance transaxles to handle 700 hp+ cars desert and sand cars. The fabricator that built our prerunner suggested this design. You can make the cage structurally sound as the "hoop" designs that have been used in NHRA and other racing. He said that the driver needs a complete box around themselves. With correct bends and welding we shouldn't have any problems. I'll post some pics in the next couple of days as it comes out of the fab shop. We're mostly following the poison spider design: Poison Spyder Customs: Some of the pic show the cage going into the dash. We're going all the way to the floor with a support going back to the mid mount, following the door.

My original post was about tying the cage to the frame. Sounds like there is mixed reviews, depending on tub material and opinions. I think everyone is on board tying the seats into the frame as it creates the "box" that I'm looking for. I just need to find new tilt mounts that are not as tall. I don't plan on putting the back seat into the Jeep, but would like to be able to tilt the seat forward to get things out of the back. I have custom fiberglass hardtop, which makes things hard to get out of the back as is. It will be easier in the summer when I have the bikini top on.
 
BajaEdition said:
here is my tale, first factory roll cages are poopie, very thin and bend easily, custom roll cages usually are built fron much thicker metal, I would not trust a factory roll cage to protect me from getting hit by a bug, they bend to easy. I also do not like 4 point cages, they do not protect any thing.
Click to expand...

A factory cage VS. a Semi:
http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f69/i-think-i-broke-2414/
The vertical wet stripes are where the body folded around the roll cage.

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good old plastic and tin semis :Dand the score is jeep 1 semi 0 lol
 
Does anyone know wall thickness on the factory bar??
 
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