Dana 60, what would you do different??

[gootee08]

What would you do different?

All good stories start with, you’re not going to believe this but there I was cruising down the free way at 68mph in the motor home and something felt funny. When I looked in the rear view all I could see was white smoke. It looked like a spy car smoke screen.
My mind started to race, what is happening, did I blow the Transmission , did I lose a tire. Then I see the jeep whipping back and forth. I next thought is thank God it’s not the motor home.
So what happened you ask…glad you asked.
The pinion bearing locked up and locked the rear axle. I have the drive shaft removed so nothing else in the drive train was affected.

This is what the rear tires looked like about 400 yards after all this happened.

A trip to Uhaul and I was on my way…


Without further ado, my wants and the question. From the start I wanted dana 60’s front and rear, why, again you ask. Just because I can, and this is the truck I want to follow. So I’m thinking 37-39 inch tires. Also planning a 4 link, again just because.


I’ve been searching for 60’s high and low, new and used, whole trucks and parts, full and semi float (want full). Reading all the articles on the net, watching Xtreme 4x4 on cutting up your own axle. And after all this my head is swimming. There are so many options 5, 6, 8 bolt, ford, chevy or dodge, hi pinion, shave kits.

So this is what I think I want…cut down, 6 bolt chevy, lock-outs (still could be flat towing), disk brakes, locker and 410 gearing for the big tires.


???So those that have done axle swaps, what do you love and what would you do different????
Please include any details you wish, what is your width, what gearing, what locker or not, disk or drum, what bolt pattern? Did you build or buy?

My thinking is I only want to do this once!

 

[BajaEdition]

I would go with a Dana 44
a D 60 is a huge pumpkin that takes a lot of tire to make it worth the time
anything less than 37s and it does not improve clearance.
but then it is not my pocket book
But I guess you can so go for it.
sounds to me like you have read one to many JP articles because you are not going get the performance out of a 7 to justify the cost
and from the sound of the way you are asking, you have no experience in such swaps
a bit of advice, by the time you get that frame reinforced to fit the suspension and axles and tires you propose, and then modify it to accept such, then spend all the money sourcing, designing and custom fabing such. It would be cheaper to get a TJ and swap the axles out for D60s.

 

[CJim7]

Im getting ready to swap D60's front and rear on my '7. I personally think it's a good swap, a Dana 44 is just too similar to the corp 20 to justify spending the money going that route.
A D60 still offers decent clearance with average to larger tires, especially cut down to OEM Jeep wheelbase. If left full width, plan on running tires larger then 37's. Stay away from the 14 bolt unless you want to go big in the tire department...the pumpkin is huge.
A stock D60 is plenty strong for average use. If you want to get serious with it, plan on swapping to 35 spline shafts...especially if you want to follow that big truck around in the mud.

 

[Old Dog]

If your going 60's than spend the money and get the good ones, as jim said get the 35 spline axles. High pinion would be great.
Also plan on cutting that cj to pieces to make thoes big meats fit.

I think you can out run that big heavy truck. That front bumper weighs as much as half of your jeep.
What size tires is he running?

 

[gootee08]

Thanks for the feedback, I planned on the 35 spline axle. From what I was reading the 30 are the same and use the same carrier as a 44. Please post the swap, I would like to follow that. I'm looking at a used set of 38x12.5 for the build up.

I like to cut sheet metal Old Dog, already openned up the wheel wells with the new tj flares, but I'm sure I can find some more room if needed. I think his tires are in the 44-45 range but I'll ask next time I talk with him.

Keep it coming guys!!

 

[BajaEdition]

it is the inexperience of the OP I object to
he is wanting a ton of info about a build he knows nothing about
if he is asking about a D60 build and has no Idea about it all, such as comes out in his post, then he needs to wheel a lighter vehicle

want to know the funniest thing about this recession, I can buy half done D60 conversions for a dime a dozen started by who wanted the biggest and baddest and all badly done and do not work.

again my advice, build a Dana 44 /Dana 30 combo, go out and wheel that. I really do believe it will serve 99% of your wheeling needs.
If you are asking this many questions about a D60 build, you have no experience with them and are grasping at straws.

 

[CJim7]

With all due respect, I dont see the OP's posts as lacking anything but the actual hands-on experience. He's asking the right questions and has obviously been researching.
Everyone has a "first experience" and I am no exception:
I've been tearing apart, building, rebuilding, modifying my CJ for 20 years. I had never rebuilt an engine....until I built my previous AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l /4.0 hybrid from the ground up, Likewise, my 401 with no experience building a V8. Never installed an aftermarket tranny or rebuilt a Dana 300 ...until I did it after researching and asking questions.
Now Im getting ready to build a set of D60's...which I have never done, but I did the research, know what it takes, know what tire limitations exist for just about every axle out there, and what I want to do with my Jeep.

Once again, no disrespect, but I believe he knows what he wants to do and running 38.5's on a 44/30 combo is committing axle-suicide. Plain and simple. The 44 is only marginally stronger then the corp 20 and only in certain respects such as tube thickness and a slightly larger diameter shaft (and only slightly). The 30 wont hold up to 36's....I know from experience.

 

[BajaEdition]

that is why we all have opinions Jim

 

[1986cj7]

With all due respect, I dont see the OP's posts as lacking anything but the actual hands-on experience. He's asking the right questions and has obviously been researching.
Everyone has a "first experience" and I am no exception:
I've been tearing apart, building, rebuilding, modifying my CJ for 20 years. I had never rebuilt an engine....until I built my previous AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l /4.0 hybrid from the ground up, Likewise, my 401 with no experience building a V8. Never installed an aftermarket tranny or rebuilt a Dana 300 ...until I did it after researching and asking questions.
Now Im getting ready to build a set of D60's...which I have never done, but I did the research, know what it takes, know what tire limitations exist for just about every axle out there, and what I want to do with my Jeep.

Once again, no disrespect, but I believe he knows what he wants to do and running 38.5's on a 44/30 combo is committing axle-suicide. Plain and simple. The 44 is only marginally stronger then the corp 20 and only in certain respects such as tube thickness and a slightly larger diameter shaft (and only slightly). The 30 wont hold up to 36's....I know from experience.

Jim I agree with you since he is going to 38" but with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l that he has listed that he has does he realy need this big of an axle. Unless he's going to up grade to a monster motor like your 401, or something with alot more power then the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . gearing needed to make this usefull would need to be extermly low, mabye I missed something in this thread but in my opinion to justify going to the d60 he will need to do a motor upgrade also. Not to mention the T-5 which to me is way to weak a tranny to have for the d60 maybe he should do a tranny and motor up grade first then go to the d60 38" tire upgrade. Just my .02

 

[gootee08]

Jim I agree with you since he is going to 38" but with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l that he has listed that he has does he realy need this big of an axle. Unless he's going to up grade to a monster motor like your 401, or something with alot more power then the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . gearing needed to make this usefull would need to be extermly low, mabye I missed something in this thread but in my opinion to justify going to the d60 he will need to do a motor upgrade also. Not to mention the T-5 which to me is way to weak a tranny to have for the d60 maybe he should do a tranny and motor up grade first then go to the d60 38" tire upgrade. Just my .02

Thanks for the opinion, and the over looked info. The motor discussion was in another thread. Two reasons for doing the axles first. One because I know that I wanted the D60 and B. I destroyed the rear axle in the jeep now. I have not made a decision on what motor/Transmission /case I wish to use. I like the 5 speed and Dana 300 case. My thought now is a 350/nv4500/Dana 300 drive train but not stuck on it either. The reason for this threat was to get advise from people who have done a 4 link with axle swaps and learn a little before doing mine, but open to any thoughts on drive tran as well.

 

[Niedhogg]

Jim I agree with you since he is going to 38" but with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l that he has listed that he has does he realy need this big of an axle. Unless he's going to up grade to a monster motor like your 401, or something with alot more power then the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . gearing needed to make this usefull would need to be extermly low, mabye I missed something in this thread but in my opinion to justify going to the d60 he will need to do a motor upgrade also. Not to mention the T-5 which to me is way to weak a tranny to have for the d60 maybe he should do a tranny and motor up grade first then go to the d60 38" tire upgrade. Just my .02

I think the point here is, that he's fragged his axle, he has the means and ability to upgrade to better axles, and quite frankly, where better to start since it's already broken?? At least with the motor tranny combo he currently has, he can't break the D60s, and he can go from there. If he does it right, with deep enough gears for the 38s, then maybe his next weak point will be the tranny, and if he doesn't have enough power, as you say, with this motor to even turn these tires and axles, then I doubt he can break the tranny.

The way I see it, he's doing it right by starting with the axles and working back from there. Most people start with the motor, and then break everything else pretty quickly. At least that's how I figure it will happen for me. I actually started with the bigger tires, and then modded my engine, so I know that's wrong and I'm gonna break my axles pretty quickly if I get bound up somewhere, but that's how it goes..

 

[Old Dog]

Gootee, If you want to run big tires you have to have the 60's to go with them. So yes do it now and up-grade from there.
Since your from ohio I have to wonder what type of wheeling you plan on.
That I6 might be all you need with the right gears.
Here's a pic of a yj on 42's that a member our my 4x4 club built.
I don't know the build sheet but mught be able to ask him some questions
the jeep works great in places like harlin Ky.

 

[1986cj7]

Thanks for the opinion, and the over looked info. The motor discussion was in another thread. Two reasons for doing the axles first. One because I know that I wanted the D60 and B. I destroyed the rear axle in the jeep now. I have not made a decision on what motor/Transmission /case I wish to use. I like the 5 speed and Dana 300 case. My thought now is a 350/nv4500/Dana 300 drive train but not stuck on it either. The reason for this threat was to get advise from people who have done a 4 link with axle swaps and learn a little before doing mine, but open to any thoughts on drive tran as well.

Didn't know your already exploded an axle. Then this would be a place to start, and also didn't know you where already thinking of upgrading in the drivetrain dept. also.

 

[gootee08]

Again thanks for the responses. New question first then plans. Gearing has been talked about now a couple of times. I will check the gearing when I get home but lets assume 3.77 now with 30 inch tires and I'm realy happy with it. If I go with 38's, what gearing will i need to keep rpm's about the same.
Next, the plan for this rig will be my drive around and hunting buggy for wheeling in Alaska. If anyone wishes to see some pics, I can post when I get home, I can show some of the challenges I have faced. The number one priority is don't brake down because the closest road is 30-60 miles away. Number two challenge is bringing enough fuel to get in, move around while in and make it back to the road. So again thanks.

 

[CJim7]

The engine doesn't play the role you would think...as much as the axle gearing. I had a friend who built his 4-banger TJ with a set of Dynatrac 60's and ran 38's all over the place. His axle gearing and xfercase reduction were the key. Still not ideal because a 4 cylinder is well, still a 4 cylinder and thus highway performance was marginal at best, but offroad, it was a crawler.

The AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l provides plenty of power to turn 38's with the proper gearing. The issue in this case will be tire speed when you need it. You want the low gearing to provide the torque necessarily...but with low gearing comes a price, and that price is a lower tire speed at higher RPM's. Elementary, but an important point.

But dont let the contradictory tone of what Im saying fool you...the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l provides a lot of great torque alone and is plenty engine to push large tires...it just wasn't built for drag racing.

Again, the key is axle gearing. But I highly recommend a Lomax 4:1 kit for the Dana 300 . At the very least, a Lomax 32-spline output shaft conversion to strengthen it. The one weakness of the Dana 300 with large tires is the output shaft, and several companies have identified this and have kits available.

I would go in the range of 5.13-5.38 for a gear ratio. There is a tire/gear calculator on this site to help you choose over fuel economy, power and torque, etc.

My reason for posting in favor of the D60 is simple: The Dana 44 is almost NO upgrade over the corp 20. In some respects, the 20 is actually stronger...and both axles would need some serious upgrading to run 38's.

Cost efficiency and strength being an issue for the tire size considered, it's a no-brainer to jump up to a D60 or a 14b. Fabrication is going to be a given on any axle choice and since you are planning on a 4-link, any choice will be irrelevant.

 

[BrockGrimes]

Check out a D50 they are cheaper alot of times and fairly easy to find.
One of the 4x4 mags did a tech article on the D50 and it's gaining aftermarket support,
lockers, gears and such. The D50 is kinda a mix of 44 and 60.

 

[fishinfool98]

If you are wheeling alaska look at doing winch front and rear!!!!!
Lockers are a Must!!!!!
Keep your Dana 300 and just Twin stick it.
Now as for the engine make sure you dont do a gas guzzler
I had a 454 with GM Turbo 400 and 20 Transfer Case with Factory dana 60s
I broke the drivers side outer, then the passeger side inner on the same trail
5 min from the truck. Put in RCV axels in the front. went down the same trail and broke the rear drivers side. same spot! i broke the first time. did the rcvs in the rear and hit it again. went out stayed out for 2 tanks of fuel before demolishing a steering box.

But just look at what people have done with their builds
I want bigger axels put 44s in they break ok now i need bigger/stronger shafts. next thing you know they have a one ton jeep and are starting to build a full tube buggy.

I am a perfect example
I have a CJ8 thats getting one tons

What is the most you are looking at putting into your jeep?
Do you plan on upgrading to a full roll cage?

Any Questions just ask most of us will be straight and to the point on what we think.

 

[gootee08]

I have a 12k winch for the front and will get 5 or 6k removable for the rear. Also need a good deadman design to pull against. Gas is a big issue, last time i was out I was calculating down to the gallon what it would take to get back to the road. Which is why I liked AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , good low end, reliable and not bad on the gas. On the high side a 350 can be made to have OK fuel ecconomy. Still have not made the discision.
As for a budget I'm going to spend what I need to not to brake. Not to say I have an unlimited budget but I'm thinking 5k for the axle swap and not sure about drive train, until I pick a drive train. Plan on a full roll cage and rock slides with something for some body protection.

 

[gootee08]

The engine doesn't play the role you would think...as much as the axle gearing. I had a friend who built his 4-banger TJ with a set of Dynatrac 60's and ran 38's all over the place. His axle gearing and xfercase reduction were the key. Still not ideal because a 4 cylinder is well, still a 4 cylinder and thus highway performance was marginal at best, but offroad, it was a crawler.

The AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l provides plenty of power to turn 38's with the proper gearing. The issue in this case will be tire speed when you need it. You want the low gearing to provide the torque necessarily...but with low gearing comes a price, and that price is a lower tire speed at higher RPM's. Elementary, but an important point.

But dont let the contradictory tone of what Im saying fool you...the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l provides a lot of great torque alone and is plenty engine to push large tires...it just wasn't built for drag racing.

Again, the key is axle gearing. But I highly recommend a Lomax 4:1 kit for the Dana 300 . At the very least, a Lomax 32-spline output shaft conversion to strengthen it. The one weakness of the Dana 300 with large tires is the output shaft, and several companies have identified this and have kits available.

I would go in the range of 5.13-5.38 for a gear ratio. There is a tire/gear calculator on this site to help you choose over fuel economy, power and torque, etc.

My reason for posting in favor of the D60 is simple: The Dana 44 is almost NO upgrade over the corp 20. In some respects, the 20 is actually stronger...and both axles would need some serious upgrading to run 38's.

Cost efficiency and strength being an issue for the tire size considered, it's a no-brainer to jump up to a D60 or a 14b. Fabrication is going to be a given on any axle choice and since you are planning on a 4-link, any choice will be irrelevant.

where is the tire/gear calculator?

 

[CJ007]

where is the tire/gear calculator?

Gear Ratio Calculator

This is the one I used when I was determining final crawl ratio but it inlcudes rpm range as well. I have seen a nice visaul chart on the site as well that someone should have.

BTW, I assume you don't want to trailer it? What type of wheeling will you be doing primarily? That will help others with suggestions.

Look forward to see you leading the truck