Dire Dilemma!! This is dread man, truly dread

[mtnwhlr]

I would loose the shackles and about 2" of body lift. your C of G has got to be way the heck up in the air. Keep in mind, your Jeep was short, narrow and tall when it was new and original. making it taller is something to do with great restraint if you want it to handle well.

 

[RajahSC]

Thanks for the help guys! I think the first order of business will be new shackles. The ones in the rear are exactly like the front. So, I will go about replacing all 4. I will go with the greasable kind. I can't see how the non-greasable kind would be better.
I will do a closer check on the inboard mounts as well, maybe while my son turns the wheel back and forth. Then, the body lift needs to come off. I don't like it anyway and like you guys, I think it is helping to contribute to the instability. Plus, the wifey is only 5' 5".
After those improvements, we'll try it again and go from there whether tires, shocks, springs, whatever.
This is a great website. I sure appreciate the help!
-Rajah

 

[BC CJ]

My steering was terrible when I got my jeep; worn parts, longer shackles, terrible tires...

I would try the mounting the spring on the higher hole on the shakles you have. While you have the jeep jacked up try wiggling the tire top to bottom - if there is any play the ball joints need replacing. Ball joints made a big difference on mine. Wiggle the tire front to back and look for play in the tie rod/drag link end joints. New shocks will also help a bit.
For me there was play where the steering shaft entered the saginaw gear box, I had to replace the box. That made the biggest difference on my Jeep.

 

[DHugg]

"My steering was terrible when I got my jeep; worn parts, longer shackles, terrible tires..."

My porridge was too cold! I had a rusted-out steering shaft, a highly suspect steering box, much slop in the 2-piece OEM Saginaw steering box mount, and badly-worn ball joints.

I still have the badly-worn ball joints for a few more weeks, but the white knuckles went away mainly because of a new steering shaft, a HD single-piece steering box mount, re-grease and careful torquing of the shackles, and a good cross-brace for the steering box to keep the frames from moving independently under stress. The single-piece box mount and the cross-brace where the biggest contributors. I can't imagine how good life will be with new ball joints, tierod ends, and fresh wheel bearings!

 

[NorthwestCJer]

To do what I am about to say. You will need a friends help.
I am also only talking about the front tires.
Take a tape measure. Go to the inside rim bead edge on the front wheels in front of the axle and measure the distance. Then do the same behind the axle.
You need to get your "toe in/out" the same.
So is the front of your tires closer together or further apart than the rear of the front tire.
Adjust your tie rod to make them equal. Just loosen the knuckle clamps on both sides of your tie rod and turn the rod. One side is left hand and the other is right hand. So turning it one direction will either bring the front of the tires closer, or farther apart.
Once they are equal, tighten down the clamps and take it for a drive.
You should be slightly "toe'd out" . in a perfect world. but drive it and see what is better.
You may need to make many adjustments.
I also agree with replacing the shackle.
And I do not like body lifts, but it shouldn't effect anything.

I run 33's, no sway bar on my 84' and can do 60 on a rutted freeway.

Good luck

 

[BC CJ]

I'm pretty sure it needs to be Toe'd in. About 1/8 of an inch is what I've always been told. Maybe a type-o NorthWestCJer

Hey, Spokane is pretty close to my neck of the woods. Ever get up to BC?

 

[Old Dog]

I'm pretty sure it needs to be Toe'd in. About 1/8 of an inch is what I've always been told.

That's what I've always done. It works good for me.

 

[mtnwhlr]

That's what I've always done. It works good for me.

I will have to also agree with this.

 

[dauntless89]

I will have to also agree with this.

Correct. 1/8" toe IN.

That's how I've had mine set up, tracks great.

 

[Scooter402]

Same here -- 1/8" toe in. Tracks great with 38" Boggers.

 

[NorthwestCJer]

Well,considering know one else happend to meansion to do this.Now every one is an expert.hah
My suggestion comes from experience on more than one rig.
Start with my suggestion. It will work.

 

[dauntless89]

I disagree.

Toe-out can alone cause the symptoms the OP is describing. Ask me how I know? When I put my lift on, I overcompensated the old-school split tie rods on my rig and ended up with something like 5 degrees toe-out. Wouldn't track straight, couldn't go above about 35, and you could hear the front tires howling where they didn't used to. Luckily I only had a few miles to travel to get home from my buddy's shop and the alignment shop was only a few blocks away the next morning (this was before I knew you could set it yourself on these rigs). They set it to either a degree or half-degree (I did the math once and it worked out to .120" with 31's) and it was perfect until my springs sagged, but then I set it myself and it's perfect again.

If you don't believe me, do a search here and elsewhere. Not trying to be a <-BAD WORD->, but your experience with "more than one rig" does not trump physics. The tires will naturally pull themselves towards toe out when driving. Slight toe in creates directional stability and compensates for elasticity in the steering linkage. Start with toe-out, you're just going to give yourself problems. Whichever tire has more traction will determine where the rig is headed. Pretty scary when it switches on you every couple seconds...

 

[Scooter402]

Well,considering know one else happend to meansion to do this.Now every one is an expert.hah
My suggestion comes from experience on more than one rig.
Start with my suggestion. It will work.

Hm. As does my experience. I was a fleet mechanic in the USMC. Not to mention doing many side jobs on many many vehicles as time permitted while Uncle Sam owned my hiney. I don't only have experience on one rig. Just saying.

 

[dauntless89]

That reminds me, last summer I looked at the tires on my pickup... fronts were 75% at the outer edge, showing cords on the inner edge.

After I changed my shorts and front tires out I went and had it aligned. No idea how long it was like that. I'd only had about 10,000 miles on that truck at that point.

Also, just so we're on the same terminology page, the "toe" of the tire is the front of the tire, with respect to front and rear of the vehicle. So, "toed-in" would have the front of the tires pointed towards each other as viewed from above:

 

[RajahSC]

Haven't got 'round to steering adjustments yet. I work alot so dont get to work on the jeep as much as I would like. But I have found a MAJOR problem if maybe not the entire problem. When you turn the wheel right or left (at all) the shackles are flexing BIG TIME! you can see it. 1- they are way too long (5 in center-to-center) 2- they are too wide (you can see the spring moving side-to-side and bushings are trying to egg-out) 3- by being so long they just sway side-to-side whenever the axle moves. Lastly, the bolts are too long in that they are not threaded far enough to put sufficient clamping force on the springs even if they were tight enough.
There is another hole you could move the bolt up to but I'm just going to get new shackles, greaseable and made by professionals.

Then we'll go from there!
Thanks guys for all the help!
-Rajah

 

[mtnwhlr]

Haven't got 'round to steering adjustments yet. I work alot so dont get to work on the jeep as much as I would like. But I have found a MAJOR problem if maybe not the entire problem. When you turn the wheel right or left (at all) the shackles are flexing BIG TIME! you can see it. 1- they are way too long (5 in center-to-center) 2- they are too wide (you can see the spring moving side-to-side and bushings are trying to egg-out) 3- by being so long they just sway side-to-side whenever the axle moves. Lastly, the bolts are too long in that they are not threaded far enough to put sufficient clamping force on the springs even if they were tight enough.
There is another hole you could move the bolt up to but I'm just going to get new shackles, greaseable and made by professionals.

Then we'll go from there!
Thanks guys for all the help!
-Rajah

You should get a bushing kit also.

 

[jdcaples]

if you have the cash and if you believe the springs are nearly 3.5 decades old, consider new leaf springs, too.

-Jon

 

[RajahSC]

Update:
Well, I've taken off the body lift and replaced it with stock-height poly bushings. WHAT A FREAKIN' JOB! Every bolt save 2, broke off. Every nut plate, save 2, broke out of their mounts.I got initiated into CJ ownership big time. But, I got thru it. I made new nutplates from 3/8" thick stock. I put 1/2" bolts in them. While the tub is a rusty mess, it is held on very securely.
This brought the truck down two inches and gave it a somewhat squatter appearence that I really like. While there are still problems to be fixed, this made a noticeable difference in how it feels on the road.
I have received in my new, stock height, heavy-duty, greasable, shackles but have not installed yet. Took me two weeks to do the body lift (1/2 hour here and there).And now my shop air compressor has gone out. But the shackles are next. Then, tires. I took a good look and mine are worse than I thought. They are definitely contributing to the problem.
Then a systematic approach to all the solutions you guys have offered on here and I'm confident we'll get there. Significant progress has been made!
P.S. My wife can get her foot up over the door edge now, so she is liking it a lil better!

Thanks guys!
-Rajah

 

[johnnyreb]

I hear ya rajahSC. My wife is 5' 1". My suspension is stock with 31's and no lift and she still whines and wants me to add a front roll cage so I can add more hand holds to go with the stock step. My spring bushings are shoot and she darts at times, but I still drive 70 on the interstate. She's ok till I pass 18 wheelers with the doors off.

 

[RajahSC]

There is NO WAY I would do 70 in my jeep! I finally got the new shackles on and it made a little difference. It's a little tighter. I will do 45 now and feel reasonably at ease. I removed the stock steering stabilizer and it was totally shot. So that needs replacing as well. I have a suspicion that my rear springs are shot as well. I don't see any broke, but it has a lean to it and sometimes it feels like the rear-end is not "stable" for lack of a better term. Like maybe the center bolt on the springs is broke or something. Everything looks okay on the outside but I'm gonna investigate it further. Like previously mentioned, they are 34 years old.

I really wish someone would do this test for me. This is my first Jeep, so I'm new to this but-

If the Jeep is sitting still (not running) and you move the steering wheel back and forth, you can see the shackles move because the axle is moving laterally side-to-side. It's a very small amount but it definitely moves. Is it supposed to do this?
I have checked ball joints, tie-rod ends, and steering box mounts, all while someone else is moving the steering wheel. I can find nothing loose or broken. I have replaced the spring bushings and shock bushings with polyurethane versions. I'm just wondering how much play it's supposed to have and if everyone else's Jeep moves a little. It's almost like it's supposed to have a track bar or something. Like the leaf springs aren't holding it in place like it's supposed to. Maybe it's the big tires (31) with 10" wide wheels the po has on it. Any ideas on this?

Thanks!
Rajah