Engine Oil

[JeffP]

Oil isn’t oil as some have said. There a reasons there are so many different types!
Here’s some trivia you may not know and it can cost you!
Years ago some tree huggers decided that the high pressure additives were killing of whales, spotted owls and the desert tortoise.
True or not, they screamed loud enough to force oil recipes to change. This in turn forced the automotive industry to “upgrade” to roller camshafts. With obviously no regard for those of us who use “flat tappet cams”. They didn’t do that to spend more building cars, they were forcd to!
So what does this mean for your older Jeep? It means you need to use a type of oil, if you can, that still has an ample amount of zinc & sulphur etc in it or add ZDDP to each oil change!
Another option is to assume... this is BS, the oil jug says “safe for all engines etc.” It might be... but AFTER the publication date they are citing, that you didn’t bother looking up!
As of today, Shell Rotella T and Valvoline Racing Oil are the only two I know of that still contain ample high pressure additives.
I’ve seen cams go flat in aslittle a 500 miles! What is worse... the metal that came off, went thru your engine!
Summit Racing and Jegs both sell “ZDDP”. I use the Comp Cams brand & order it by the cast.
If you bother reading the description on a new camshaft (non roller type) it will say the warranty is void if you can’t prove you added ZDDP!
Investgate before it’s too late!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

The added ZDDP can and does mess with sensors in todays cars. It will add to tail pipe emissions.
For the last 33+ yrs. I've run Castrol 20W-50 in my Jeep, and a blue bottle of STP.
I still have 60psi(FAA certified mechanical O/P gauge)hot O/P at 2500rpm, and pass Ca. SMOG.
The engine has 121K+ miles on it, other than the valve cover resealed a few times. I have never been inside the engine.
I only use WIX oil filters(OEM).
Most worn cams I've seen, were from bad heat treat or to 'heavy' of a valve spring.
LG

 

[mriplaybass]

I use Valvoline VR1 10W30 racing oil. It has the zinc needed by the older engines. I have been running it since I rebuilt the engine, and the engine is still running strong. It is also available in other weights. Got it on Amazon.

 

[RiverandSand]

Kendall G1 20w-50 also has added zinc, been running Kendall for years in my buggies. For those that want to read more about this or anything oil related, bobistheoilguy is the site to check out.

 

[PistolDave]

I also use the VR1 10-w30 and have had good luck with it. The higher your spring pressure is, the more critical it is. High rpm performance engines with stout valve springs will chew up a flat tappet cam in short order with modern off the shelf oil. Several friends found this out thru trial and error and once they started running ZDDP additives or oil with the proper amounts already in it, no more problems.

The spring pressures are pretty low on stock amc engines, and the majority of them were broken in back when oil still had ZDDP in it. It's a lot more critical during the first few oil changes. I suspect on a stock engine once it is broken in good, you can probably switch to modern oil without much risk. I still run the VR1 anyway, cause it's not much higher than regular oil so it seems like cheap insurance to me.

 

[JeffP]

The added ZDDP can and does mess with sensors in todays cars. It will add to tail pipe emissions.
For the last 33+ yrs. I've run Castrol 20W-50 in my Jeep, and a blue bottle of STP.
I still have 60psi(FAA certified mechanical O/P gauge)hot O/P at 2500rpm, and pass Ca. SMOG.
The engine has 121K+ miles on it, other than the valve cover resealed a few times. I have never been inside the engine.
I only use WIX oil filters(OEM).
Most worn cams I've seen, were from bad heat treat or to 'heavy' of a valve spring.
LG

“Older Jeeps” as mentioned in the original post aren’t “today’s cars”. Modern cars have roller camshafts so the high pressure additives aren’t needed.
I’ve built many engines over the years and have seen the damage caused by inferior oil.
Everyone is free to use whichever oil they want, with or without additives. Personally I don’t think the risk warrants the trivial savings.
If I didn’t believe it or thought nobody would benefit from what I wrote, I wouldn’t have bothered to post it.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

“Older Jeeps” as mentioned in the original post aren’t “today’s cars”. Modern cars have roller camshafts so the high pressure additives aren’t needed.
I’ve built many engines over the years and have seen the damage caused by inferior oil.
Everyone is free to use whichever oil they want, with or without additives. Personally I don’t think the risk warrants the trivial savings.
If I didn’t believe it or thought nobody would benefit from what I wrote, I wouldn’t have bothered to post it.

Never said you were incorrect.
I also have a background in engine work. Many of use here do. Know well of what you say.
Many of us still have to SMOG test our 30+ year old cars, and the ZDDP can be an issue in tail pipe emissions. One of the reasons ZDDP has been cut back in diesel engine oils.
Each oil seller has a different 'chem-pack' that is used in their oil. Switching oils because of cost, can cause issue with seals when mixing those 'chem-packs'.

LG

 

[JeffP]

I experimented with a variety of oils back in the 70’s extensively. My results were quite surprising! All the tests were with SAE 30 oil.
Of course that was 40+ years ago and likely doesn’t apply today, nor does it apply to ZDDP in the current context.
What came in last place consistently were the oils from Penzoil & Castrol!
Penzoil left most of itself stuck to the block and actually had chunks or lumps in it when poured from a new can onto clean white paper. The Castrol was nice looking but would change viscosity the first time it was heated to operating tempreture, then remain at a much lower weight. I didn’t see that with any other brands.
Midrange was Chevron and Shell. They both performed well.
The best were Valvoline and drumroll please... wait for it... Texaco Havoline! Back then Havoline was one of THE lowest priced oils on the shelf yet it consistently outperformed every other brand!
After my experimenting I could generally tell what oil was used when I tore an engine down. Penzoil was the easiest to spot... often the valley on V8 engines was completely packed with a waxy sludge that usually had the imprint of the intake manifold.
My father ALWAYS used Penzoil AND bought a new Lincoln Continental each year when the new models came out. I didn’t understand until I saw what that junk did to engines. When I showed him my test results he switched to Texaco oil.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I too have seen the issue you speak of with Pennzoil, because of the high sulfur content it would make seals hard & brittle. Like what the 'stink-oil' did, that AMC brought out for the T-4 /T-5 tranny.
I worked for an engine builder, by the name of Donovan in Torrance, Ca. All they would use was Castrol(non-detergent, 50W racing oil).
My buddies family owned Wilcap of Hot Rod City fame. They also liked Castrol(same as above).
Started using Castrol in 1966, in my Honda 305 Scrambler(30W det).......


LG

 

[BIG4D]

Manufactures did not go to roller valve systems due to engine oil! They did it to reduce engine drag and get more power from smaller engines, thus increasing MPG. This is to help attain EPA mandates MPG requirements.
Roller systems were perfected in the racing world in an attempt to eck out more HP.

Manufacturers also went with thinner oil (5 w30 and 0w 30) to reduce power used by the oil pump (easier to pump, robbing less HP), again to eck our more HP and better fuel economy..

More false information.......


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[JeffP]

Manufactures did not go to roller valve systems due to engine oil! They did it to reduce engine drag and get more power from smaller engines, thus increasing MPG. This is to help attain EPA mandates MPG requirements.
Roller systems were perfected in the racing world in an attempt to eck out more HP.

Manufacturers also went with thinner oil (5 w30 and 0w 30) to reduce power used by the oil pump (easier to pump, robbing less HP), again to eck our more HP and better fuel economy..

More false information.......


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Right... all out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[Scorzany]

I use Shell Rotella T-4 Conventional 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel.

 

[BIG4D]

Right... all out of the goodness of their hearts.

No, not out of the goodness of their hearts, to comply with EPA mpg requirements. Reread my post before making snide comments.


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[JeffP]

No, not out of the goodness of their hearts, to comply with EPA mpg requirements. Reread my post before making snide comments.


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Read or reread mine! Then study up on the epa mandates decades back! It was soley emissions, years later they bitched about fuel economy... long after the engine changes regarding roller cams!

 

[Belizean]

I have 237,000 miles on my engine and it still runs well. Other than what was in it when I bought it new, mine has only had Castrol it it. The engine shop I used to machine an engine I bought used, said to use one of the ZDDP oils. Weighing what I should do.

 

[BIG4D]

Read or reread mine! Then study up on the epa mandates decades back! It was soley emissions, years later they bitched about fuel economy... long after the engine changes regarding roller cams!

Roller cams, roller lifters and roller rockers did not hit the mainstream until the mid ‘90’s Jeff! Fuel injection hit the mainstream WAY before roller engines did!
I’ve been in the racing scene most of my 49 years. Roller motors have been the norm there since the late 70’s.
Roller motors have little effect on emissions. On the other hand, they have a huge effect of power, thus allowing more power from smaller and smaller engines. Fuel injection (specifically the closed loop systems) played the biggest part in lowering emissions.
By the mid 90’s there was only a hand full of, mostly foreign, cars that still had carburetors.
Fuel injection came first, for emissions, the roller motors came next to boost MPG and power. Period.


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[BIG4D]

Then came variable valve timing (again to boost power by flattening the torque curve) and lower emissions. Changing valve timing was a racing thing. The racing scene was the first to use it.
With all these new engine features, came more power. Thus the engines got smaller. Hell, you could buy a full sized truck from ford with a 4 cylinder! Turbo charged, variable valve timing, closed loop direct injection!
Then came the LS monsters! 300hp from 4.7L!


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[Lumpy Grits]

I have 237,000 miles on my engine and it still runs well. Other than what was in it when I bought it new, mine has only had Castrol it it. The engine shop I used to machine an engine I bought used, said to use one of the ZDDP oils. Weighing what I should do.

Don't 'fix', what ain't broke.
Blue bottle STP will add ZDDP.
Your seal are soaked with Castrol chem's-stay with it.
use the thickest oil you can, for your temp range.
LG

 

[JeffP]

BIG4D
I suspect you missed something... in my O.P. I stated that it was THE OIL high pressure additives that the EPA cited as problematic for emissions was what changed “conventional oils”. As such, auto manufacturers were FORCED to upgrade valvetrains. Added performance was a side benefit.
Roller camshafts & rockers being common prior was coincidental.
Again, read and try to comprehend the O.P. Then research EPA mandates from the era.
I owned several automotive shops back then. I was sent all the bulletins / data concerning new regulations that I too had to follow.
Evidently you weren’t on the mailing lists.