Fluid change in T-150 & Dana 20 - Help??

Fluid change in T-150 & Dana 20 - Help??
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65reissue

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Alpena, AR
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77 Jeep CJ5 - Renegade - 304 w/3 spd - pretty stock at the moment.
I know this has probably been covered 100's of times...and if you know where I can get this information just send me that way and I'll leave you all alone....BUT...I need to change the fluids in my Transmission and Transfer Case (T-150 & Dana 20 ) in my 77 CJ5 . Can anyone give me the step by step in doing this (pictures if you've got them) as well as a list of everything I need to do it...including what type of oil? Anything that I need to look for or pay close attention to as well? Appreciate your help...thanks!
 
Fluid: (From Novak) When filling your T-150 with gear oil, we recommend that you select a conventional mineral oil or a para-synthetic in lieu of a full synthetic oil. Properly assembled manual gearboxes do not have the thermal strains seen by combustion engines or hypoid gears. Synthetic fluid in these gearboxes, while not harmful, is probably an economic waste.

Hypoid gear oil is sulphurized higher than Transmission oil and can be mildly corrosive to the non-ferrous alloys used for synchros, bushings and thrust washers in these transmissions.

An 80W-90, API-GL5 or MT-1 rated fluid is very good. Some claim faster shifts from using a 50W engine oil in their Transmission and we do not consider this to be contraindicated unless you operate your vehicle in a very warm environment.

I claim none of the above... That is from Novak : The Borg Warner T150 Jeep Transmission - Novak Conversions

They're pretty easy to change fluid in... I assume it's similar to my T-15 ...:rolleyes:

You have 2 plugs. They can look like bolts with hex head or square head, or square female head. You find loosening tool accordingly. On mine the fill is on the drivers side middle-ish of the case, and drain bottom passenger side.

Just like changing oil in motor from there... Drain, inspect fluid for shavings / chunks of metal, replace the drain plug, pump new oil into the fill hole until it starts to leak out, and cap fill hole back off, clean and good to go.

Someone with a T-150 please correct me if incorrect... As stated i have a T-15 , not T-150 ... :cool:

With Dana 20 pretty much same, fill and drain holes same... Dana 20 info - see here: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/model_20.htm

:chug:

~ JR
 
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Thanks alot...I appreciate your help. Hopefully I won't run into any problems. I have heard some issues regarding working around the skid plate...it was suggested to not try to remove it??? I figured that would be the most logical way...but possibly there is more to it? thanks again for your help.
 
65reissue said:
I know this has probably been covered 100's of times...and if you know where I can get this information just send me that way and I'll leave you all alone....BUT...I need to change the fluids in my Transmission and Transfer Case (T-150 & Dana 20 ) in my 77 CJ5 . Can anyone give me the step by step in doing this (pictures if you've got them) as well as a list of everything I need to do it...including what type of oil? Anything that I need to look for or pay close attention to as well? Appreciate your help...thanks!
Click to expand...


You ask a very good question........ I assure you the 70s FSM..... all of them say to use GL4 Gear Lube. I even went and researched and quoted every Jeep FSM, chapter, page, and verbage...... and they almost all said to use GL4 in the Jeep Transmission and Transfer Case . The exception would be the 1982 FSM and said GL5 and JEEP had a full line, accross the board, full recall of all Transmission fluids Oct. 1982 to replace the GL5 because so many transmissions were failing in all models.... it was a big mess.

There are a few.... very few.... GL5s that will work but not work as well as GL4.... they have different properties and are NOT interchangeable.


Originally Posted by Fjguercio

Here is a POST from me a few years ago.... I just copied and pasted here so hope nobody minds. YOU WILL FIND NOTHING BUT GL5 GEAR LUBE ON THE STORE SHELVES, NOTHING BUT.... The GL5 GEAR LUBE is the wrong fluid for old JEEP CJ Manual Transmissions and Transfer Cases, can also cause the SYNCROS to start rattle/noise and not work well or shift well. GL5 HAS THE WRONG.... LUBRICATION PROPERTIES.... AND.... IT IS CORROSIVE TO YELLOW METALS USED IN MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. Some have posted, many posted, they could hardly shift after some time. Changed to GL4 and got better and quieter. I have done this dozens of times with great results.

So Please copy this to your hard drive and spread the word. This could stop a lot of JEEP MANUAL Transmission FROM FAILURE AND REBUILD BEFORE THEIR TIME. TRY IT YOU WILL SEE.................

The confusion with the AMSOIL product its rated as oil viscosity and not Gear Lube viscosity. The TWO OIL VISCOSITY SCALES cross or equal at these weights…..AMSOIL MTF is what I am going to change to since I do not WATER CROSS so the installed life will be of benefit. I currently have the Napa GL4 installed and very pleased with the correction of operation and is getting even better over time…. Almost no syncro rattle now

THE AMSOIL MARINE GEAR LUBE CAN ALSO BE USED FOR......... GL4 GEAR LUBE, it meets the GL4 spec, it can absorb more water before oil failure. SO... for those of you that play in the water alot that may be a good choice.

I have spoke to Amsoil Tech Support and the Gear Lube Engineer..... This is confusing to MARKET. Using Gear Lube Weight for gear lubes and OIL LUBE WEIGHT for the MTF product. They are changing their lit and web site to use Gear Lube Weight for MTF / GL4 Product. Should be done sometime next year. A Chem Eng In OIL here on JeepForum and I had a WEB Discussion on this in detail.... seems the Oil Weight and Gear Lube Weight cross here at these numbers. I’ts just confusing.


This info has been posted lots….. and many times on the forums. MOST of the Jeep Field Service Manuals say use GL4….. the only place Jeep messed it up was 1982 they said GL5 and had INDUSTRY RECALL ON ALL MODELS and changed the gear lubes and transmissions left and right…. Or very often.

The Amsoil White paper on gear lubes is a very good read.

The Novak Web site does have a little blurb on gear lubes/Transmission and its very confusing, not well written, and its leading many down the wrong path. I wish Novak would rewrite and update their info.

Gl4 and GL5 are not the same and not interchangeable…….. their applications are different…. Their properties are different….


It your syncors rattling. The gear lube on the shelves is GL5 and is a product made for the pumpkins of these big large towing capacity tow rigs. The GL5 has the wrong lubrication properties and is corrosive to the yellow metals in manual transmisisons. All the BorgWarner Transmissions in the older Jeeps should use Gear Lube.

The RIGHT GEAR LUBE is GL4...... GL4...... GL4.... Napa Sells it, call them and ask them to order you 1-2 gallons and its like $25 a gallon.... was $15/gal when I first started posting... not the price has almost doubled..... After 50 to 100 miles it will start shifting better and should start to get quite. My T-18 did the same thing after I put the Gear Lube from the shelf.... it was GL5 and started shifting harder the the syncros starting rattle. Now almost silent and shift much better and its 32 years old.

Alternaitves Amsoil Syncromesh is a GL4 or Mobil 1 were both rated very high and and some of the least expensive on the list.

Bromgarrds Farm Stores, IA, NE, Co, Midwest area also have a GL4 gear lube. Sell 2.5 gal container for like $27.


I have posted this up many times, many folks amazed with results. Frankly I am SHOCKED another fluid bad for our Little Jeeps ALL OVER THE SHELVES. I HAVE LOOKED YOU WILL ONLY FIND GL5 ON THE SHELVES. Good for your pumkins but not for the Transmission /transfer. Also add a magnet to both drain plugs to catch the metal particle. I also took a "stick magnet" and rubbed the bottom of Transmission /Transmission and got more out that way.

NAPA
SAE 85w90 Gear Oil GL4 (also meets GL3)
Part #SL24239
Mfg By Sta-Lube, sibisdary of CRC Industries
Bar Code 72213-24239
$25/gallon, phone order take 1-2 days to arrive, then pick it up, easy

I would also consider Amsoil MTF Syncromesh GL4 or the Mobil 1 Gear Lubes they were tops in performance and lower in cost that most. $8-10/quart.





PS
Use GL5 Gear Lube in your Pumpkins and follow any recommendations for Limited slip or locker additives.






APPLICATIONS For GL4 and Amsoil MTF Gear Lube their GL4
Recommended for automotive and light-truck applications that require synchromesh Transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T-4 , T-5 , T-18 , T56, T-176 , TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid. Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, Limited -slip or wet clutch applications.



T-5 .....Dexron III / Mercon, Mercon V use.....ATF.......
BUT....(except T-5 from 1985 to 1991 use GL4 Gear Lube)
 
MN CJ7 said:
APPLICATIONS For GL4 and Amsoil MTF Gear Lube their GL4
Recommended for automotive and light-truck applications that require synchromesh Transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T-4 , T-5 , T-18 , T56, T-176 , TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid. Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, Limited -slip or wet clutch applications.
Click to expand...

Hey MN, What about the posters T-150 (and my T-15 ) :cool: Does this apply fully to those transmissions & also are the transfer cases identical in fluid desired?
 
65reissue said:
Ok...thanks alot for the information. So I can use 80w90 for my Transmission , Transfer Case and axles? ....correct? But need to use a GL4 in the Transmission & Transfer Case ? Is GL5 ok for the axles or should the axles be changed with GL4 as well? thanks again...
Click to expand...


Use Gl4 in the manual transmissions and Transfer Case (20 & 300 models).

Further..... if you read the 70 Jeep FSMs it clearly states........"The 20 Transfer Case shares fluids with the transmisson and should be the same fluid." The Model 300 transfere case is sealed or supposed to be sealed so some argued they could use any fluid and since the 300 Transfer Case does not have yellow metals........... Welll.... In my opionion it has gears like a Transmission and transf case and is better protected by the Gl4 made for those type of gears and service... Your 300 Transfer Case will run better and shift better with Gl4. Many have posted about pulling so hard on the transfere case to shift... that could be a symptom of the wrong fluid.

Use Gl5 in the differentials

Gl4 and Gl5 are not interchangeable..... they were made for different purposes.... and have different lubrication properties
 
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MN CJ7 said:
APPLICATIONS For GL4 and Amsoil MTF Gear Lube their GL4
Recommended for automotive and light-truck applications that require synchromesh Transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T-4 , T-5 , T-18 , T56, T-176 , TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid. Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, Limited -slip or wet clutch applications.
Click to expand...

JR74CJ5 said:
Hey MN, What about the posters T-150 (and my T-15 ) :cool: Does this apply fully to those transmissions & also are the transfer cases identical in fluid desired?
Click to expand...


JR74CJ5,

Yes it does.....

Keep in mind the above verbage is the AMSOIL information about their MTF, Manaual Transmission Fluid, a very good product for our Jeeps. And their Marine Gear Lube is also a good choice, but the MTF is better. The trimec Transmission are listed on the back of the bottle with that same verbage.

I have not gone back and looked to verify the 18 Transfer Case but it is similar to the other Transfer Case in gear types and function.... The Gl4 would be a good choice then also.

This gear lube is a big mess..... I cannot imagine how many jeepers have poor running equipment because they can only find the Gl5 and thus they use it...... it is also causing a lot of Transmission rebuilds too.
 
Hey 65reissue thanks for asking this question!

And MN thanks for the info!

Turns out i had GL-1 in my trnny/Transfer Case and a whole lot of metalic paste on my magnets...

Just switched to the GL-4 you listed from napa lastnight... Fyi its $33.00 /gal now:eek:

But already seems a bit quieter and easier to shift... Now i wonder how much damage ive done :censored: also have that same GL-1 in diffs... Should i be changing that too (to GL-5) ?
 
65reissue said:
Thanks alot...I appreciate your help. Hopefully I won't run into any problems. I have heard some issues regarding working around the skid plate...it was suggested to not try to remove it??? I figured that would be the most logical way...but possibly there is more to it? thanks again for your help.
Click to expand...

By the way... I did remove my skid plate from the cross member last night... Was a lot less messy! Not sure why but ive heard same as you... Havent put it back on yet, had a list of stuff to do lastnight, but ill let you know if i run into any problems... Only 4 bolts... Cant imagine the difficulty...
 
JR74CJ5 said:
Hey 65reissue thanks for asking this question!

And MN thanks for the info!

Turns out i had GL-1 in my trnny/Transfer Case and a whole lot of metalic paste on my magnets...

Just switched to the GL-4 you listed from napa lastnight... Fyi its $33.00 /gal now:eek:

But already seems a bit quieter and easier to shift... Now i wonder how much damage ive done :censored: also have that same GL-1 in diffs... Should i be changing that too (to GL-5) ?
Click to expand...

MN CJ7 said:
Use Gl4 in the manual transmissions and Transfer Case (20 & 300 models).




Use Gl5 in the differentials
Click to expand...

yes, I would put the GL5 in the pumpins.

Transmission will get better per day, wk, and even the next few months.

If Napa keeps raising price, I may need to contact MFG directly and see who else distributes their product. The Bromggards Farm Store product is now 80% less in cost. The Amsoil MTF is 11/quart and will shift better than the Napa Gl4 Dyno.....

Guys think I am kidding.... try these changes and products you will be ammazed



"annother fluid that does damage to our classic jeeps"
 
Just did mine last night, but they are different than yours... I only needed 1 and small portion of 2nd. I bought 2 to be safe, cause wasent sure myself...

If you are not pinching pennies, get 2 Gal, and save the remaining amount...

You will want the pump too, so you can screw it on the top of the gallon bottles and hand pump the liquid up into the fill holes

:chug:
 
Ok...I'll probably get 2 gal too...and pump. Also, since I'll be at the store anyway...how much gear oil will I need to get for the front and rear differential?
 
Hmm... It's been a while since i did that, I think 1 would do it, but again I can't remember... the last time i did them, My Uncle and I both did tranny's t cases, and both diffs all at same time together on out CJ's... So we bought like 5 or 6 and had 2 to spare...

As mentioned earlier, 1+little for each tranny / Transfer Case , for ease lets say 3 total for that (but is less and remember I'm figuring for 2 CJ's) and had 2 left over from buying 6, so we each used 1 for both our diffs each...

So i "Think" 1 would do it... I'm just not positive enough to tell you only need one and cause you a extra trip while your CJ's in the driveway still...:cool:

:chug:
 
I bought gl-4 ep 90 Super S, I was assuming the ep90 meant 90w wasn't sure so I wanted to ask now? Is this the wrong lub or is it ok? Can't find any other place to find it but what I've found here? And this was $60 for 5 gal It'll take me forever to use it all, but at least I'll have it for in the future.
 
1986cj7 said:
I bought gl-4 ep 90 Super S, I was assuming the ep90 meant 90w wasn't sure so I wanted to ask now? Is this the wrong lub or is it ok? Can't find any other place to find it but what I've found here? And this was $60 for 5 gal It'll take me forever to use it all, but at least I'll have it for in the future.
Click to expand...


Not sure what you found there..... Tell us more what is on the label. I will do a search and see what I can read about your gear lube find...

Mfg of product,
address
part number
complete description
where you purchased the gear oil
 
Hey guys...

Do a search for.....the old Jeep service manuals... Good resource and have the capacites, repairs, electrical tests and values, igntion tests. I have read 7 of then or so cover to cover and they can teach you bunch....

Search for stuff like this and pretty sure you will find them....

"Digital Jeep Service Manual 1984" for example or the year of your jeep.
"Jeep Service Manual down load in .pdf"
"Down Load Jeep CJ Service Manual...... year needed"

Older 70s versions will be for 1978, 79, 80..... I have a 1978 Jeep CJ7 and use a 1979 manual. I know there are 6 FSMs and Parts Manuals on the web.... Many were published on JeepForums too. I did not keep the URLs just the manuals they are usually in .pdf or Adobe Reader read files.
 
Here is the Jeep CJ 81-86 FSM link
http://www.cfsja.org/smpdf/81j.pdf
 
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